# Discussion of the novel, Master and Commander **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 6, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841 "2010-01-06T02:05:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/61 "2010-02-15T02:36:10Z")
Ah, Mr. Webster says: \*\*within \*\* _prep_…(3) : in or into the range of \ \. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/62 "2010-02-15T02:40:16Z")
I don’t know what it means exactly. Lying close by, maybe? Lying between the frigate and the land? “Lying within” isn’t in my _Sea of Words_ glossary. **AuntiePam** , did you enjoy that seen where Stephen falls in the water when trying to come aboard ship? It gets to the point where, later in the series, there’s a scene where Pullings is expecting a visit from Stephen and he goes ahead and orders a bowl of oil to be prepared for Stephen’s watch. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/63 "2010-02-15T03:01:59Z")
> [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](#): > > Pullings is expecting a visit from Stephen and he goes ahead and orders a bowl of oil to be prepared for Stephen’s watch. Sweet oil. 🙂 In _The Ionian Mission_ Stephen jumps in for a dip just as _Surprise_ goes in pursuit. They almost miss there prize, and the mariners who usually worship him are quite put out. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/64 "2010-02-15T04:00:21Z")
> [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](#): > > **AuntiePam** , did you enjoy that seen where Stephen falls in the water when trying to come aboard ship? It gets to the point where, later in the series, there’s a scene where Pullings is expecting a visit from Stephen and he goes ahead and orders a bowl of oil to be prepared for Stephen’s watch. Oh lord, I laughed! I shouldn’t have, because he was hurt, but it’s such a good running joke. My impression of Stephen is that he’s a bit frail, but he really should learn how to get on and off the ships. 🙂 Oh, and what is “drowned baby”? They had that for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/65 "2010-02-15T13:44:23Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Oh, and what is “drowned baby”? They had that for dinner. It is a [desert.](http://uktv.co.uk/food/recipe/aid/576363) ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/66 "2010-02-15T15:25:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > First page of Chapter Eight. > > “Stephen turned from the rail, where he had been staring under his shading hand at the ship lying within the frigate.” > > I don’t have a clue. I take it to mean within range or sight of the Boadiceas frigate Stephen is in. “The frigate” refers to the Boadiceas on the next page. > > I loaded it back up on my Palm and searched for “within”. 🙂 My best guess: the ship lying within _(the lea of)_ the frigate. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/67 "2010-02-15T16:00:10Z")
What I like about the book is how defeated foes were treated-enemy officers were brothers-and dined in the wardroom with the ship’s officers. If you put up a gallant fight, and then surrendered your sword, Aubrey would treat you with respect and courtesy. That attitude became a casualty of the 20th century wars. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/68 "2010-02-15T16:49:52Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > It is a [desert.](http://uktv.co.uk/food/recipe/aid/576363) Thanks! I don’t think my store carries shredded suet. Guess I won’t be trying this recipe. Or the salted penguins. **Kizarvexius** , yeah, that sounds likely. **ralph124c** , I like that too, and how after a ship strikes its colors, the men have to stop hitting each other. It reminded me of a teacher showing up at a schoolyard fight. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/69 "2010-02-15T16:55:32Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Thanks! I don’t think my store carries shredded suet. Guess I won’t be trying this recipe. Or the salted penguins. You probably don’t want [this book](http://www.amazon.com/Lobscouse-Spotted-Dog-Gastronomic-Companion/dp/0393320944/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266252820&sr=1-1) then. And even though I started a thread on it, suet wasn’t actually hard to find - it was in the novelty meats section of my local supermarket. I’d bet any market that cuts its own meat would have it or be able to give you some. Had to shred it myself though. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/70 "2010-02-15T17:02:00Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Thanks! I don’t think my store carries shredded suet. Guess I won’t be trying this recipe. Or the salted penguins. Or the soused hog’s face. Or the millers. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/71 "2010-02-15T19:22:29Z")
Especially not the millers. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/72 "2010-02-15T19:58:45Z")
> [@Rocketeer](#): > > Especially not the millers. You must always select the lesser of two weevils. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/73 "2010-02-15T20:38:24Z")
> [@Rocketeer](#): > > Especially not the millers. You should only eat them when they are dead. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/74 "2010-02-15T20:51:48Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You must always select the lesser of two weevils. Was that the best pun Jack ever came up with? I think so. He strains so, trying to be funny. He values wit but doesn’t have much of it himself. Another thing I like about the books is that people are always wishing each other joy. I’m gonna work that into conversation, I think. It’s so sweet. Haven’t run across anyone eating millers yet, unless I forgot. I think I’d remember. Blech. They’re so dusty! ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/75 "2010-02-15T21:12:58Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Haven’t run across anyone eating millers yet, unless I forgot. I think I’d remember. Blech. They’re so dusty! If you’re reading the books in order, you have. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/76 "2010-02-15T21:34:56Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Was that the best pun Jack ever came up with? I think so. He strains so, trying to be funny. He values wit but doesn’t have much of it himself. > > Another thing I like about the books is that people are always wishing each other joy. I’m gonna work that into conversation, I think. It’s so sweet. > > Haven’t run across anyone eating millers yet, unless I forgot. I think I’d remember. Blech. They’re so dusty! Actually, Jack’s best puns are the unintentional ones, when he mangles his languages. My Latin, French and Spanish are not much better than Jack’s, but a few of his _lapsi linguarum_ have nearly sent me to the hospital with uncontrollable fits of mirth. This is seconded only by Stephen’s habit of deliberately mangling the captain’s saws. “They have had their cake, and now they must lie down in it,” for example. And if you’ve read the passage in which the term “miller” is etymologized, then you’re read about them being eaten. Recall the episode in which Dr. Maturin’s “lab rats” are scavaged by the midshipmen, who are subsequently subjected to a form of revenge only a doctor could concoct. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/77 "2010-02-15T22:13:04Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > Actually, Jack’s best puns are the unintentional ones, when he mangles his languages. My Latin, French and Spanish are not much better than Jack’s, but a few of his _lapsi linguarum_ have nearly sent me to the hospital with uncontrollable fits of mirth. > > And if you’ve read the passage in which the term “miller” is etymologized, then you’re read about them being eaten. SO explain some of them to use. I recognized “putain” in one, which I presume means prostitute, but most go by. Oh yes, millers are rats. I was thinking the weevils they knock out of hardtack. “I didn’t mean to eat him, Sir, but he was already dead.” ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/78 "2010-02-15T22:35:31Z")
Millers are rats? I missed that, or forgot. Sometimes I’ll stop and try to puzzle something out, but usually I’m so caught up, I just keep reading. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/79 "2010-02-15T22:54:08Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > SO explain some of them to use. I recognized “putain” in one, which I presume means prostitute, but most go by. Most of them whoosh right by me as well. I often suspect from the setup that something witty has just flown past my head, but I don’t have the erudition to catch up to it. I will try to locate one or two of the howlers I did latch onto when I have the books at hand this evening. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841/80 "2010-02-15T23:20:06Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Oh yes, millers are rats. I was thinking the weevils they knock out of hardtack. > “I didn’t mean to eat him, Sir, but he was already dead.” “Millers” are rats, yes; the weevils (or at least one species of them) they called “bargemen”. Soldiers in the American Civil War also ate a lot of weevils in their hardtack. B.A. Botkin’s _Treasury of Southern Folklore_ has a funny story of Confederate soldiers in the trenches before Petersburg being reproved by an officer for not throwing their scraps out of the trench: “We tried, sir, but they kept crawling back!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-the-novel-master-and-commander/523841.md?page=5)