# Discussion of trans people should be respectful **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 2, 2021, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553 "2021-07-02T23:51:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/21 "2021-07-03T03:51:21Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So if you have such horrendous body odor that your partner leaves you, there’s no point attempting to fix your body odor problem, because now there’s nobody around to smell it? Depends what you want out of life, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/22 "2021-07-03T03:53:33Z")
I read the rules Ed posted I don’t see what you claim. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/23 "2021-07-03T03:54:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Acknowledging facts and reality isn’t hateful. Debating transgender participation in sport is going to be contentious. Ridiculous policing of how language has been used is not productive. What is being asked is a bit unreasonable. Not the part about respect but the implication that one is compelled to perceive reality as others see it and it’s a moral failing to ignore that compulsion. Agreed. Everyone deserves basic respect, but we all perceive the world differently and it’s not fair to start saying “You’re a horrible person for not seeing this issue exactly the same as I do”. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/24 "2021-07-03T06:06:02Z")
Your ability to express your opinions ends when expressing those opinions are a direct attack discriminating against an intrinsic quality of another person. That means you aren’t free to misgender a person. Or if a poster mocks someone for being white you could be moderated. (That happened recently in the Pit of all places.) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/25 "2021-07-03T07:04:57Z")
I thought the rule was that you could attack anyone off the board, just not another poster. If this is a change in the rules then there has to be a major change in GD or Politics&Elections about Trump voters. ---
**Author:** ![CardboardBoxx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardboardboxx/32/7079_2.png) [@CardboardBoxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CardboardBoxx)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/26 "2021-07-03T07:16:34Z")
You can attack people off the board, but you can’t call Bill Cosby a nigger. This is the same thing, use respectful terminology, but still feel free to lambast them about their actions. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/27 "2021-07-03T07:22:08Z")
Of course you can’t use racial slurs, but I don’t remember the SDMB requiring that all woke terminology be used regarding transgender status–especially to people off the board. ---
**Author:** ![CardboardBoxx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardboardboxx/32/7079_2.png) [@CardboardBoxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CardboardBoxx)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/28 "2021-07-03T07:34:26Z")
I was just replying to the idea you said that you can’t “attack anyone” You can still attack anyone, but using approved terminology. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/29 "2021-07-03T10:22:42Z")
I agree with everything @Riemann has posted in the OP and afterwards. Including that that thread title should have been modded from the start. > [@UltraVires](#): > > I thought the rule was that you could attack anyone off the board, just not another poster. You thought wrong about [this specific issue](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guidelines-for-posting-on-transgender-issues-on-the-sdmb/937563) (my emphasis): > 1. Do not deliberately misgender another poster – that is, refer to them by a pronoun or other sex-specific term indicating a gender other than the one they identify as. This applies only in cases where a poster’s gender identity is reasonably clear. **Likewise, do not deliberately misgender off-board figures. This is a more rigorous standard than we apply in other contexts; we do not normally mod posters for merely insulting off-board figures. Deal with it**. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/30 "2021-07-03T11:09:50Z")
I just read the first post. I certainly would not think it insulting if a lay poster, in a thread about a medical issue, referred to a medical procedure by a general, well-understood term… ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/31 "2021-07-03T11:27:39Z")
Me neither, however that example does not bear in any way on the subject of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/32 "2021-07-03T13:58:56Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Of course you can’t use racial slurs, but I don’t remember the SDMB requiring that all woke terminology be used regarding transgender status–especially to people off the board. Although it’s not addressed to a specific person, referring to trans girls as trans boys is either deliberate transphobic antagonism or unacceptable ignorance about your fellow human beings. It’s hostile to _all_ trans people to allow people to get away with this nonsense with the excuse that they are “confused” about the fundamental idea of what it means to be trans. I really don’t think it’s a restriction on freedom of expression or stifling debate to suggest that people who have an urge to debate trans issues should spend 30 minutes educating themselves on how to do so respectfully. Is this really such an outrageous imposition? Again, to draw the parallel with race, should we allow people to debate race issues using deplorable racial epithets on the grounds that they find it “confusing” to grasp why these words are offensive and hostile? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/33 "2021-07-03T14:40:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I read the rules Ed posted I don’t see what you claim. Me neither. The rule is no misgendering, including people off the board, not that you have to sign up to some particular definition of man- and womanhood. IMO the former is about courtesy and is an appropriate rule, the latter would verge on legislating thought crime. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/34 "2021-07-03T15:18:30Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Is this really such an outrageous imposition? Again, to draw the parallel with race, should we allow people to debate race issues using deplorable racial epithets on the grounds that they find it “confusing” to grasp why these words are offensive and hostile? The difference is we’ve had decades (centuries, even) of understanding that racial epithets aren’t OK, as well as the obvious fact that people of different races can’t not look like someone of that race without going full Michael Jackson. The whole transgender thing is really, really recent (probably the past five years or so in popular consciousness). It took _decades_ for it to be unacceptable to the average person to make homophobic slurs in mixed company and even now there’s still a lot of people who haven’t got the memo. Going from “Five years ago this basically didn’t exist as far as most people were concerned” to “Not immediately and wholeheartedly embracing this idea and thinking it’s wonderful is a literal hate crime” is a massive, and frankly IMO unreasonable ask. And there’s the inconvenient truth that the whole “Gender is a made-up construct thing” _is_ confusing and undesirable to _huge_ number of people, especially when you’ve got people who (for example) are biologically female, look like a woman, sound like a woman, wear women’s clothes etc, yet insist they aren’t a woman but instead are a non-binary “They/them”. It’s basically trying to unilaterally rewrite one of the absolute fundamental foundation/building blocks of how most people understand the world to work, and then accusing anyone who objects of being a horrible monster. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/35 "2021-07-03T15:24:40Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > “Not immediately and wholeheartedly embracing this idea and thinking it’s wonderful is a literal hate crime” That’s obviously a straw man. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It’s basically trying to unilaterally rewrite one of the absolute fundamental foundation/building blocks of how most people understand the world to work, and then accusing anyone who objects of being a horrible monster. Nope, it’s suggesting that anyone who feels a compelling urge to debate trans issues could spend 30 minutes doing some minimal due diligence on how to discuss the issues without being gratuitously hostile and offensive to their fellow human beings. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/36 "2021-07-03T15:37:14Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Nope, it’s suggesting that anyone who feels a compelling urge to debate trans issues could spend 30 minutes doing some minimal due diligence on how to discuss the issues Do you have an approved list of people who will instruct me how to speak? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/37 "2021-07-03T15:47:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Do you have an approved list of people who will instruct me how to speak? Do you have any genuine desire to learn? ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/38 "2021-07-03T15:50:05Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > If you want a substantive suggestion - how about a short section on posting about trans issues in the rules, with some basic ground rules that if you want to post on trans issues you have some minimal burden to educate yourself on how to do so respectfully. With an FAQ, or links to appropriate online sources. That really shouldn’t be necessary, since it takes just a few minutes googling if you actually care. But it appears that the “I find all this so confusing” nonsense excuse must be unambiguously eliminated. Could you flesh this out more or maybe provide this resource? In this case, a mod intervened early in the process. If the right action is bleedingly obvious, your issue should have been taken care of at that time. He seems confused about what you’re asking for. It seems fair for some other people to be genuinely confused as well. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/39 "2021-07-03T15:52:36Z")
You are demanding people accept your circular logic as fact and as the sole perception of reality. Furthermore, there’s a censorious component that forbids discussion of underlying reality such as brain state. This creates a dishonest asymmetry. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/40 "2021-07-03T15:55:25Z")
Learn? No, I probably was too sarcastic in my reply, but I vehemently deny that “they” (whoever that is) are in a position of authority over me to instruct me on how I speak. They weren’t elected and have simply assumed some false place of authority. They no more recommend how I speak than I do them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553.md?page=3)