# Discussion of trans people should be respectful **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 2, 2021, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553 "2021-07-02T23:51:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/101 "2021-07-04T17:58:42Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Is it a “potential problem” that this child was initially identified as cis? To paraphrase your question: Is it a “potential problem” that this child was initially **assumed to be** cis? Well, if the child turns out to be trans, then obviously it’s a potential problem if the child’s family and friends are not open minded to this possibility. I honestly don’t see what’s so difficult or controversial about this. All I can see is that you’re playing on different possible meanings of the words “potential” and “assume” to set up a straw man that I’m claiming it’s somehow deplorable to assume that it’s statistically more likely that a child is cis. Well, if that needs to be clarified - I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/102 "2021-07-04T18:00:27Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Which you apparently still haven’t read carefully. I have and we agree. So I see no point in stating the obvious but of course we have no way of knowing whether a baby will be cis or trans. So the default assumption is cis until proven otherwise. You’ve yet to answer my question, which is: > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Is it a “potential problem” that this child was initially assigned as cis? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/103 "2021-07-04T19:11:05Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > A baby’s sex is _assigned_ at birth based on physical characteristics, and children are generally be _assumed_ to be cis unless they later tell us otherwise. Since babies cannot talk, we have no way to know what their gender identity is (or whether it is yet established). But sex isn’t assigned at all. Babies are born one sex or the other (except in very rare cases), and this is registered. _Gender identity_ is assumed to match sex, at least until the child is old enough to understand these things, but either way it doesn’t change the individual’s biological sex. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/104 "2021-07-04T19:48:35Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > But sex isn’t assigned at all. I have no idea what you mean by this, since you appear to immediately contradict yourself. In most cases, “assigned” means nothing more complicated than observing what external genitalia are present. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/105 "2021-07-04T19:53:05Z")
That’s not what ‘assign’ means in normal use. It means to allocate or designate, it is something you actively do, unlike passively observing. And this was the original meaning when referring to intersex people. Doctors would actively choose a sex for babies with ambiguous genitalia. This just does not happen in the vast majority of births. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/106 "2021-07-04T20:23:14Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > That’s not what ‘assign’ means in normal use. It means to allocate or designate, it is something you actively do, unlike passively observing. This is a strange perspective on the common definition of the word “assign”. I never suggested that it was just passive observation. To observe a property _and then place something in a category_ based on that property is perfectly standard use of the word “assign”, there is no connotation that it need be particularly _difficult_ to do so. In any event, your strange objection does not alter the fact that the well established term “sex assigned at birth” means exactly what I said in the great majority of cases - assigning a baby to the “boy” or “girl” category based on their genitalia. > **[LGBTQ+ Inclusion: Glossary | UW Medicine](https://www.uwmedicine.org/practitioner-resources/lgbtq/lgbtq-inclusion-glossary)** And the important reason for clarity in definition of the standard term “sex assigned at birth” is in juxtaposition to gender identity. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/107 "2021-07-04T20:32:01Z")
My objection is that the phrase is used in order to imply something that is not true - that sex comes from an external agency rather than being intrinsic to the individual. The way it is used it is simply a convoluted synomym for ‘sex at birth’, or even simply ‘sex’. Either of those are more accurate terms, and there is nothing offensive about them. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/108 "2021-07-04T20:48:54Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > My objection is that the phrase is used in order to imply something that is not true - that sex comes from an external agency rather than being intrinsic to the individual. If you personally prefer to use the term “sex at birth” because you have some ill-conceived misconception about what the word “assigned” means, I doubt anyone cares. Meanwhile, the rest of the world will continue using the well established and well understood term “sex assigned at birth”. So far as I can see, this would become a problem only if it were a preamble to advancing a transphobic agenda that a person with sex assigned at birth of “male”, but with a female gender identity, **is not a woman**. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/109 "2021-07-04T21:18:59Z")
The underlying issue is that the rules do not require us to use this specialised vocabulary - which outside certain circles is actually not well known at all - and therefore you should not be asking the mods to moderate posters merely for using alternative or non-standard terms. (However, I agree that confusing trans girls and trans boys _is_ moddable.) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/110 "2021-07-04T22:13:14Z")
Once again, I’d like to suggest that this tangent belongs in another forum. This is ATMB, and what we should be talking about here is moderation, not what it means to “assign a sex” to a baby. > [@DemonTree](#): > > you should not be asking the mods to moderate posters merely for using alternative or non-standard terms. I think it’s completely reasonable for the mods to moderate posters who use non-standard terms, especially when those terms may cause offense (as is the case with this thread.) I also agree that the many people will use the wrong terms innocently, and the moderation ought to take the form of editing the title and discussing why with the poster, and perhaps adding a staff notice if a post is sufficiently garbled or otherwise inappropriate. I don’t think moderation of “the wrong terms” should take the form of admonishing the poster. Certainly not for their initial post on the subject. I’m going to close this thread, which has lots of useful content, and suggest that posters who want to talk about trans issues start new threads, and that the moderators should discuss the moderation of the initial thread on the mod loop, where we hopefully won’t be distracted by long diversions. Perhaps this thread will reopen later. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-trans-people-should-be-respectful/945553/111 "2021-07-04T22:13:25Z")
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