# Discussion on the fairness of child support being used to support people other than the children **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 15, 2010, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217 "2010-10-15T05:53:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/21 "2010-10-15T20:02:02Z")
While, as others have said, there is no way to prevent the rest of the kids and the boyfriend from living off Greg’s money, what he should do is document any and every occasion where his children’s financial needs are not being met. While he cannot fully control where the money goes, he sure as hell can complain if the money is not benifitting his kids. If a family of 9 is living on $2500 a month, you can be assured the kids are not getting fed well, they’re not getting new school clothes, they don’t have their own beds. They are certainly not getting the financial benifits they would have if they were living with Greg. If Susan happens to end up in court and the judge asks her why she did not use Greg’s money to buy her kids new shoes, she cannot use her unemployed boyfriend and 4 other kids as an excuse. IANAL and I understand that money is fungible, but it would be a fair question for a judge to ask Susan how she supports her other kids and boyfriend. Greg’s money is not a valid answer. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/22 "2010-10-15T20:13:57Z")
Just as a point of information, how much does it cost to keep a child in a relatively healthy and happy state? I know that this varies largely by area and lifestyle, but on average for a middle-class home-owning family in a suburban neighborhood, what would it be? My last GF was getting, IIRC, $2400/month from her ex to raise two kids. That struck me as really excessive, but since I’ve never had kids of my own, I really wouldn’t know. Good for the ex that he makes a ton of money. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/23 "2010-10-15T20:22:37Z")
**tdn** , it depends on how the custodial parent handles the cash. My SO’s mom got the state minimum, which, IIRC, was close to 900/month (when he turned 18 3 years ago). She set some of it aside for college expenses - since she knew he likely wouldn’t contribute after he turned 18 (and he didn’t). But it’s not as though she lived large, or anywhere near as well as they would have had they been together. 2400 isn’t much if she’s saving, but she easily could raise them on like 1500 and pocket the rest as well. 2400 sounds like it allows the kids to have ipods, a computer and nicer clothes in line with their peers. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/24 "2010-10-15T20:23:54Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > But what the hell is she going to do in a few years, when Greg’s children become adults? The answer is: you don’t know, and you won’t care 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/25 "2010-10-15T21:03:45Z")
Another thing. Will the amount he has to pay be reduced as the children turn 18? That may be one way to get the question of how the money is being spent in front of a judge. She will contest any motion to reduce the amount but that will require a hearing. The back side of that blade of course is that if the amount is reduced, it will affect his children still living with her. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/26 "2010-10-15T21:39:53Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Please don’t let that make your blood boil. Children are easily manipulated, I’m certain it’s the case here. > > He needs to accept what he cannot change, and wait. Stay as positive and ‘there’ for the boys as is possible. Call them every week, send them a card for every occasion, give them his cell number with instruction that they can call anytime, remind them every time. And he needs to do so without expectation of any change in the reception he’s getting. Yeah, I know, a herculean task. > > His sons will not be young and easily manipulated for much longer. Life cannot be much fun for them at home, as you’ve described it. The day is coming when they will need an ocean of calm and normalcy to take refuge in. He should bide his time, because his time is coming. They will one day be old enough to understand that he fought his hardest to get them, etc. > > He needs to avoid being reactive and thereby reinforcing any bullshit she’s laying down. Keeping an open heart in the face of crushing disappointment and circumstances beyond your control is one of the most important lessons you can share with children. Just be open and welcoming whenever you get the chance, always cut them some slack for living in such dysfunction, and they’ll come around, I think. Sooner or later, things will get shitty at their home and they’ll escape to Dad’s. He needs to be ready by being mentally healthy, not bitter, angry, victimized. > > It’s not fair, and he can’t change it, and that’s not fair. All he can really do, is do his damnedest to stay positive, and never stop pouring love on them, in whatever way he can. > > He has my sympathies, as do his children. Seconded, completely. Seriously, it sucks, it is COMPLETELY unfair, but done is done. This will not last forever, and one day he will (probably) be vindicated. Be patient, stand beside him, and wait. Peace will come. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/27 "2010-10-15T21:43:24Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > This will not last forever, and one day he will (probably) be vindicated. But by then his children will likely be permanently alienated from him. He’ll be a near stranger they had little to no chance to bond with and were taught to hate. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/28 "2010-10-15T23:03:17Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > > > This will not last forever, and one day he will (probably) be vindicated. > > But by then his children will likely be permanently alienated from him. He’ll be a near stranger they had little to no chance to bond with and were taught to hate. Exactly my thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/29 "2010-10-15T23:08:49Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > 2400 isn’t much if she’s saving, but she easily could raise them on like 1500 and pocket the rest as well. 2400 sounds like it allows the kids to have ipods, a computer and nicer clothes in line with their peers. She is not saving a dime, and no the kids don’t get any iPods, computers or nice clothes from their mother. Greg got two laptops computers for the boys, which were commandeered by the mother for her own use and never seen again by the boys. Greg got the oldest an iPod Touch for Christmas (loaded up with hundreds of albums) it was taken away by the mother a week later. The kids have raggedy clothes and hand-me-downs, and the only nice shoes they get are from Greg sending them for birthdays. Clearly, she’s spending the balance of the boys’ money on herself and the rest of her family. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/30 "2010-10-16T01:37:45Z")
In my kingdom, each month the child support recipient would submit a detailed statement to the court as to how the money was spent. The Payor should have the right to appoint an accountant to examine the statements, subpoena documents, etc. If she is using it for matters other than the direct support of HIS children, then the amount should be reduced accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/31 "2010-10-16T02:04:26Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > In my kingdom, each month the child support recipient would submit a detailed statement to the court as to how the money was spent. The Payor should have the right to appoint an accountant to examine the statements, subpoena documents, etc. If she is using it for matters other than the direct support of HIS children, then the amount should be reduced accordingly. Can I be a citizen of your Kingdom? It sounds like a very sane and fair place to live. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/32 "2010-10-16T02:06:34Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > > [@jtgain](#): > > > > In my kingdom, each month the child support recipient would submit a detailed statement to the court as to how the money was spent. The Payor should have the right to appoint an accountant to examine the statements, subpoena documents, etc. If she is using it for matters other than the direct support of HIS children, then the amount should be reduced accordingly. > > Can I be a citizen of your Kingdom? It sounds like a very sane and fair place to live. Only that part is fair. My other rules are tyrannical 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/33 "2010-10-16T02:25:19Z")
Of course it isn’t fair and there isn’t a god damned thing to be done about it. Child support is determined by a formula and it is what it is. The formula was set up in an attempt to be fair but in extreme situations like this one, it’s awful. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/34 "2010-10-16T02:41:40Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > In my kingdom, each month the child support recipient would submit a detailed statement to the court as to how the money was spent. The Payor should have the right to appoint an accountant to examine the statements, subpoena documents, etc. If she is using it for matters other than the direct support of HIS children, then the amount should be reduced accordingly. Yeah, seriously, why aren’t they required to produce receipts for expenditure? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/35 "2010-10-16T02:58:29Z")
This isn’t the first child support situation I’ve read about that was as crazy as a cat in coonskin cap. I sympathize but have no advice to tender. I did want to comment that this: > [@lindsaybluth](#): > > The courts are messed up; a solid reason for why there should be private courts. has to be about the dumbest, most short-sighted idea I’ve seen on the Dope in months. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/36 "2010-10-16T04:19:22Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > But by then his children will likely be permanently alienated from him. He’ll be a near stranger they had little to no chance to bond with and were taught to hate. > > Exactly my thoughts. However, I doubt they’re exactly over the moon about a mother who steals their presents for her own use, and doesn’t buy them shoes. I have a strong suspicion that the reason the boys SAY they don’t want to see and call Greg, is that they think they’ll get grief from their mother after. It sounds very Stockholm Syndrome. ---
**Author:** ![BrassyPhrase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@BrassyPhrase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassyPhrase)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/37 "2010-10-16T05:02:25Z")
I don’t know ya’lls financial situation or the law. With Susan having remarried, had more kids (sex offender living in the home, etc), and this new random guy-- is it possible to hire a new lawyer and have the whole agreement looked at again? Try for a new judge or something about custody? I’m a big fan of the Dan Savage ‘DTMFA’ idea if it’s a problem in the relationship, but it sounds more like you’re trying to find a way to help. So, I don’t agree with the dump him mentality, in this case. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/38 "2010-10-16T05:02:56Z")
Absolutely it must seem unfair that the money he paid for child support doesn’t exclusively go to his children – but if that is the only money coming into the house… Okay, we look on as the household gathers around the dinner table. The three golden children get steaks, the other four children get a stale crust to gnaw on? And the three eldest are supposed to feel good about that, watching their three younger siblings starve? Yes, the root of the problem is no doubt his ex-wife for having three more children by a guy who gets sent to prison and then taking up with an unemployed guy with yet another child, but no doubt what’s top of the judges mind is what’s best for the children. And it sounds like there aren’t any really good options available. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/39 "2010-10-16T05:18:22Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > > > This will not last forever, and one day he will (probably) be vindicated. > > But by then his children will likely be permanently alienated from him. He’ll be a near stranger they had little to no chance to bond with and were taught to hate. Not necessarily. My parents are divorced, and my mom did her fair share of trashing my dad when I was growing up. (And, vice versa.) I bought into it when I was young enough not to know better, but as I grew older, I realized that I’d been hearing some very biased viewpoints from both parents involved, and decided to just have relationships with them on my own terms. My only recommendations in this situation are: 1. As much as possible, try to stay calm about this situation and do not let it enrage you. Just deal with the cards you’ve been dealt, so to speak. 2. Don’t give up trying to contact the kids. Yeah, it’s tough when they say they hate you, but giving up and having no contact is only going to reinforce the idea that “Dad wants nothing to do with us.” Just keep at it. I’m not saying the kids will eventually figure it out like I did, but it’s certainly a possibility. You both have my sympathy. (And I wouldn’t leave the guy over this, either.) ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217/40 "2010-10-16T05:22:47Z")
> [@BrassyPhrase](#): > > I don’t know ya’lls financial situation or the law. With Susan having remarried, had more kids (sex offender living in the home, etc), and this new random guy-- is it possible to hire a new lawyer and have the whole agreement looked at again? > > Try for a new judge or something about custody? > > I’m a big fan of the Dan Savage ‘DTMFA’ idea if it’s a problem in the relationship, but it sounds more like you’re trying to find a way to help. So, I don’t agree with the dump him mentality, in this case. Sigh. Greg has had multiple lawyers and judges over the years, so that hasn’t helped. This current action is him suing for custody. This case has been ongoing for 2 years. We just got the “custody evaluation” report the other days which is the final nail in the coffin of his custody case. The “therapist” states that Susan should retain custody because it would traumatize the kids to be taken away from their mother and siblings. Greg’s attorney basically said it would be futile to continue to trial in light of this report. I am stunned and frustrated that there is no justice to be had here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-on-the-fairness-of-child-support-being-used-to-support-people-other-than-the-children/557217.md?page=3)