# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 108
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2259 "2023-12-06T17:26:51Z")
I’ve only seen them condemned. However, bringing up the rapes _when people are pointing out the current war crimes the IDF is committing_ as some kind of trump card is getting old. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2260 "2023-12-06T17:31:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > However, bringing up the rapes _when people are pointing out the current war crimes the IDF is committing_ as some kind of trump card is getting old. I didn’t bring that up. There is lots of information that has recently come to light from the released hostages which I have not posted here specifically because I didn’t want it to come across the way you describe. Crane brought it up, even putting “investigation” in scare quotes. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2261 "2023-12-06T17:34:15Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I didn’t bring that up. I didn’t say _you_ did. But it has been brought up that way in these threads. And just FTR - I don’t agree with the way Crane brought it up, either. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2262 "2023-12-06T17:37:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I didn’t say _you_ did. But it has been brought up that way in these threads. Gotcha - I disagree with bringing it up in that way as well - the enormous suffering of these women is not a cheap political prop. > [@MrDibble](#): > > And just FTR - I don’t agree with the way Crane brought it up, either. Thank you for clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2263 "2023-12-06T17:37:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Please do not minimze what happened. I don’t. I object to criminal rape being used as cheap propaganda justifying systematic mass murder in Gaza, as was done by Netanyahu in one of the videos. I put investigation in single quotes because in the link video it was hearsay presented by the PR representative of a private organization. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2264 "2023-12-06T20:12:17Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > I put investigation in single quotes because in the link video it was hearsay presented by the PR representative of a private organization. [Is this enough “investigation”](https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/middleeast/rape-sexual-violence-hamas-israel-what-we-know-intl/index.html) to persuade you it’s not just “hearsay”? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2265 "2023-12-06T21:58:41Z")
…Tedros Ghebreyesus, Director-General of the World Health Organization, has just provided an update on hospitals in Gaza. 19 hospitals are now _non-functional_. 14 partially functioning hospitals; 3 minimally functioning hospitals and 2 field hospitals. He has called for an end to this callousness. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2266 "2023-12-06T22:41:23Z")
…statement from Oxfam International: > [@](#): > > Published: 6th December 2023 > > The Israeli military onslaught in southern Gaza is causing destruction, danger, and civilian terror and suffering at such a scale that makes any humanitarian response impossible across the entire enclave, says Oxfam. > > … > > Oxfam staff in Gaza speak of young children asking their parents to pack their clothes into separate bags for their next displacement under fire, in case their parents are killed. People are now fighting over basic necessities like food, water and fuel. An Oxfam partner told us today: > > “This is one of the most difficult days and wars that we have experienced. If you look anywhere around, you will find displaced people, injured people, people sleeping in the streets, and even we face many difficulties in distributing aid because there is no safe place in Gaza. Every area can be dangerous, each and every place can be bombed at any moment.” > > … > > “Israel’s so-called safe zones within Gaza are a mirage: unprotected, not agreed or trusted, not provisioned, and not accessible. We hold genuine fears that masses of terrified people will be forced beyond Gaza itself under the guise of ‘safety’,” she said. **“This would force the humanitarian system into an impossible choice between helping civilians and being complicit in their forced deportation”.** > **[Abject failure to forge ceasefire means international community complicit in...](https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/abject-failure-forge-ceasefire-means-international-community-complicit-unfolding)** ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2267 "2023-12-07T01:54:11Z")
Thanks for the link. The press release is trying to raise enough interest to promote an investigation. It’s been two months though and not much evidence left. Also there were organizations and criminal elements involved other than Hamas. This was the lead story on TV at noon today, but had faded by dinner time. However, sex sells so it will be spun endlessly by the propagandists. Disclaimer from your link: “CNN cannot independently verify individual allegations and claims. However, several first responders who attended the scenes of the October 7 attack told CNN the attacks were overwhelmingly gruesome and that some female victims were found undressed.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2268 "2023-12-07T10:31:59Z")
Can you just _not_? It’s not in doubt there was rape, because there’s _always_ rape in war. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2269 "2023-12-07T13:43:32Z")
Let’s hope so. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2270 "2023-12-07T14:53:56Z")
This could explain the current Israeli push to depopulate Gaza: From GPT4 “The Levant Basin is a large area in the eastern Mediterranean Sea known for its significant fossil fuel reserves. It has been a point of contention between Israel and Palestine, with impacts on energy independence and economic prospects for both. The 2010 United States Geological Survey highlighted the basin’s potential, estimating substantial oil and gas reserves. Key fields identified within Palestinian territories, like the Gaza Marine offshore and Meged field inland, hold promise for energy needs and export revenues. However, geopolitical tensions and restrictions, particularly Israeli control and a blockade on Gaza, have hampered resource exploitation and economic growth for Palestinians. The region’s complex legal and political landscape continues to influence the development and utilization of these energy resources.” ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2271 "2023-12-07T15:00:20Z")
The Israelis fully occupied the Gaza Strip between 1967 and 2005. Then they unilaterally withdrew and dismantled their (relatively few) settlements there. It’s fair to say that Israel does not covet Gazan territory. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2272 "2023-12-07T15:00:51Z")
Looks like most of [Israel is in it](https://www.usgs.gov/index.php/media/images/map-levant-basin-province-eastern-mediterranean) as well as offshore Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2273 "2023-12-07T15:01:39Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > This could explain the current Israeli push to depopulate Gaza: > > From GPT4 You have GOT to be kidding me ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2274 "2023-12-07T15:04:34Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You have GOT to be kidding me How so? No oil field or no depopulation? Where is my post in error? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2275 "2023-12-07T15:05:32Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Where is my post in error? In citing ChatGPT as a source in a serious conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2276 "2023-12-07T15:06:48Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > In citing ChatGPT as a source in a serious conversation. It’s a search engine. Where’s the problem? ETA: Where is the post in error? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2277 "2023-12-07T15:17:11Z")
There’s no cites for any of it. It could be entirely made up. That’s why you shouldn’t use chat AI as an actual source of info for factual discussions. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2278 "2023-12-07T15:18:48Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > In citing ChatGPT as a source in a serious conversation. > > It’s a search engine. It’s not a search engine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=107) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=109)