# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 109
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2279 "2023-12-07T15:19:55Z")
OK [cite](https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEtk1k4nFlMQQA64RXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1703171941/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fLeviathan_gas_field/RK=2/RS=61MMEX2KFXyeBb5N628tt3OgcA4-) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2280 "2023-12-07T15:19:58Z")
I’ve started a thread in ATMB on the subject. > [@Request: don't put ChatGPT or other AI-generated content in non-AI threads](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-dont-put-chatgpt-or-other-ai-generated-content-in-non-ai-threads/994241): > > Continuing the discussion from [Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2270): I’m not picking on this post in particular, but on something that sometimes happens around here. In threads on unrelated subjects, people will post the results of a ChatGPT query. And I wish they wouldn’t. This is for a few different reasons: Most importantly AIs are notoriously inaccurate. They string words together real plausibly, but they’re not relying on research; rather, they’re relying … ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2281 "2023-12-07T15:22:04Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It’s not a search engine. Yes it is. It’s a conversational GUI for search engines. In any case I gave another cite. Oh yeah, is the post incorrect. Seems like some deflection going on here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2282 "2023-12-07T15:22:55Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > OK [cite](https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEtk1k4nFlMQQA64RXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1703171941/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fLeviathan_gas_field/RK=2/RS=61MMEX2KFXyeBb5N628tt3OgcA4-) As for this, can you make your claim explicit? As near as I can tell, you’re implying that Israel wants some of that sweet Leviathan gas field that’s under the Mediterranean Sea, and wants to depopulate Gaza in order to get to it–but that’s so obviously a ridiculous idea that I must be misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2283 "2023-12-07T15:23:04Z")
So your supposition is that Israel intends to take over Gaza because of easier access to Mediterranean oil? And your evidence for this is the existence of nearby oil? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2284 "2023-12-07T15:24:54Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > you’re implying that Israel wants some of that sweet Leviathan gas field that’s under the Mediterranean Sea, and wants to depopulate Gaza in order to get to it Yes, thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2285 "2023-12-07T15:25:39Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > OK [cite](https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEtk1k4nFlMQQA64RXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1703171941/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fLeviathan_gas_field/RK=2/RS=61MMEX2KFXyeBb5N628tt3OgcA4-) Your cite shows the existence of a gas field in the area, and a minor dispute with Lebanon in 2010. There is nothing there about Gaza whatsoever. There is nothing supporting your theory at all. It’s like I made a claim that the US was going to take over Canada to get the Alberta oil sands, and as proof, I cited an article showing the existence of the oil sands. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2286 "2023-12-07T15:26:49Z")
I too don’t see the endgame, especially since depopulation would not lend legitimacy to offshore deposits for generations. If they are concerned with a formal recognition by the international community, above and beyond what is already recognized, then that’s not going to happen. If they don’t care about recognition, there’s nothing to stop them from drilling now. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2287 "2023-12-07T15:27:18Z")
Most of Israel is inside the oil field as is off shore Israel. No need to take over Gaza, just drill straight down. [Map of Levant Basin Province, Eastern Mediterranean | U.S. Geological Survey](https://www.usgs.gov/index.php/media/images/map-levant-basin-province-eastern-mediterranean) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2288 "2023-12-07T15:29:36Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Yes, thanks for the clarification. Wait, seriously? Do you think Gaza is underwater, deep in the Mediterranean Sea? Look at that map, Crane. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2289 "2023-12-07T15:30:46Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It’s like I made a claim that the US was going to take over Canada to get the Alberta oil sands, and as proof, I cited an article showing the existence of the oil sands. It’s even sillier than that, because _this is an offshore gas field_. If Texas depopulates Mexico to get at oil in the Gulf of Mexico, that’s what we’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2290 "2023-12-07T15:31:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > There is nothing there about Gaza whatsoever. Sorry for my negligence. This is the [USGS](https://www.usgs.gov/index.php/media/images/map-levant-basin-province-eastern-mediterranean) map that has more detail. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2291 "2023-12-07T15:33:22Z")
Try to find a cite that says the existence of people in Gaza is stopping Israel from fossil fuel exploration or drilling in this geological formation. I’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2292 "2023-12-07T15:36:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’ll wait. Check out the USGS map. The offshore fields are in Gaza territorial waters not Israeli. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2293 "2023-12-07T15:37:31Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > a cite that says the existence of people in Gaza is stopping Israel from fossil fuel exploration or drilling in this geological formation. Waiting for a cite that says the existence of people in Gaza is stopping Israel from fossil fuel exploration or drilling in this geological formation. Not a map that shows part of the formation is under part of Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2294 "2023-12-07T15:39:14Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Waiting for a cite that says the existence of people in Gaza is stopping Israel from fossil fuel exploration or drilling in this geological formation. As far as I can tell one need only follow current events in the area. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2295 "2023-12-07T15:44:06Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Check out the USGS map. The offshore fields are in Gaza territorial waters not Israeli. Nonsense, the USGS map that is your second hot take on this is even more misleading that ChatGPT. Look at the map in this article, showing the actual extent of the massive field. [Voltaire Network is a dubious source, but that map is better than the Wikipedia article.] > **[Israel’s Levant Basin—a new geopolitical curse? , by F. William Engdahl](https://www.voltairenet.org/article172827.html)** > > A recent major oil and gas find is bound to change dramatically the geopolitical equation in the Eastern Mediterranean region and beyond. To start with, it has sent Israel from rags to riches in terms of energy independence and security. However,... > **[Leviathan gas field](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_gas_field)** > > The Leviathan gas field is a large natural gas field in the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Israel, 47 kilometres (29 mi) south-west of the Tamar gas field. The gas field is roughly 130 kilometres (81 mi) west of Haifa in waters 1,500 metres (4,900 ft) deep in the Levantine basin, a rich hydrocarbon area in one of the largest offshore natural gas field finds. According to some commentators, the gas find has the potential to change Israel's foreign relations with neighboring coun As of 2017, ... ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2296 "2023-12-07T15:44:17Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > As far as I can tell one need only follow current events in the area. So you’ve got nothing to back up your theory then. OK, I’m done. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2297 "2023-12-07T15:48:32Z")
I believe the issue is that any access to the field by Gaza could fuel a viable economy that would be threat to Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2298 "2023-12-07T15:50:54Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > I believe the issue is I believe that you are simply updating your beliefs to something that could conceivably fit the new facts as your factual claims are successively debunked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=108) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=110)