# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 130
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2715 "2023-12-19T13:17:50Z")
The current Israeli attack is unrelated to Oct 7 (by other than propaganda). The obvious goal is to depopulate Gaza. First by bombing then by disease and deportation. I anticipate an ‘accidental’ bombing of one or more refugee camps. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2716 "2023-12-19T16:09:39Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > The current Israeli attack is unrelated to Oct 7 (by other than propaganda). The obvious goal is to depopulate Gaza. Do you really believe that? Is there any evidence based on Israel’s pre-Oct. 7 behavior toward Gaza that supports this? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2717 "2023-12-19T16:16:45Z")
I don’t think the direct goal of the IDF and Israeli government is to depopulate Gaza. But I do think they aren’t going out of their way to _prevent_ that from happening, and they won’t be disappointed if that’s a result. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2718 "2023-12-19T16:19:33Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Sure… and in the US Black citizens have had full equal rights since the end of the Civil War… on paper. In actual reality they did not and are still not treated equally by all. Same for Arab-Israelis who are, let’s face it, Palestianians with Israeli citizenship. Lots of Israelis still see them as the enemy even when they aren’t. Arab citizens and Jewish citizens live in separate neighborhoods and seldom to never interact. Yes, there are exceptions but they’re notable precisely because they are exceptions. I agree that socially, there is little mixing between Jewish and Arab Israelis, and much suspicion (some of it quite justified) of Israeli Arabs among the Jewish population. However that is not a “denial of equal rights” as a matter of national policy such that it wouldn’t be thought of as enough of a democracy to be worth supporting on that basis. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2719 "2023-12-19T16:25:51Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I don’t think the direct goal of the IDF and Israeli government is to depopulate Gaza. But I do think they aren’t going out of their way to _prevent_ that from happening, and they won’t be disappointed if that’s a result. But do you think any of the action that might lead to that a RESULT of the 10/7 attacks, or are the 10/7 attacks completely irrelevant to said actions, as @Crane alleges? Before the massacres, was Israel not providing water, power and fuel to Gaza, issuing work permits to Gazans, and having no boots on the ground inside of Gaza? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2720 "2023-12-19T16:33:06Z")
Are those the only two options you see? Either all action was a result of the Oct 7 attack, or the attack was completely irrelevant? None of this happens in a vacuum. The approach the IDF is currently taking is obviously greatly influenced by the October attack, and the attitude of the current Israeli government toward the Palestinians has been consistent since before the attack. I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make. If it’s more of the “October 7, therefore anything the IDF does is OK” argument, then I don’t see a reason to continue. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2721 "2023-12-19T16:45:24Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Do you really believe that? It is obvious by Israels’ actions and statements by [Israeli officials](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-level-gaza-make-like-auschwitz-says-official). Netanyahu and others are discussing deporting all Gaza refugees. So, yes, I believe the goal of the action in Gaza is depopulation and that it is an atrocity. Surely no one believes that the incineration of 20,000 civilians is accidental. We are told it is in response to a Gazan uprising. The response of Germany to the Warsaw uprising was to murder 15000 Jews. That is an unacceptable atrocity. What is the difference. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2722 "2023-12-19T16:46:51Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Are those the only two options you see? Either all action was a result of the Oct 7 attack, or the attack was completely irrelevant? I was responding to Crane, who made that precise assertion. However… > [@TroutMan](#): > > I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make. If it’s more of the “October 7, therefore anything the IDF does is OK” argument, then I don’t see a reason to continue. More like “October 7, anything necessary to destroy Hamas is OK.” Before October 7, Israel tolerated Hamas as the de facto rulers of Gaza, and provided necessary support for the citizens of Gaza in general, because the non-lethal nature of that state of co-existence. October 7 proved that as long as Hamas operates, that could turn lethal at any time. To protect their own citizens, the destruction of Hamas is a necessity for Israel. The IDF is not perfect, and not above criticism, but certainly any actions that can be reasonably understood as necessary to root out Hamas is OK. To leave them in power endangers the citizens of Israel, and protecting its own citizens should always be the top priority of any government. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2723 "2023-12-19T16:49:31Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Gaza in general, because the non-lethal nature of that state of co-existence. You ignore the ongoing systematic murder of Palestinians in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2724 "2023-12-19T17:14:30Z")
Director of Kamal Edwan hospital admits it was used as a military facility: > Ahmed Kahlot, the director of the Kamal Adwan hospital in Jabalya in northern Gaza, admitted to the Shin Bet that Hamas was using hospitals in Gaza as military facilities, the Shin Bet and IDF said on Tuesday. > > “They hide in hospitals because they believe that a hospital is a safe place. They will not be harmed if they are inside a hospital,” said Kahlot to the Shin Bet. > > The hospital director added that about 16 employees at his hospital are part of Hamas’s al-Qassam Brigades. [https://www.msn.com/en-my/news/other/gaza-hospital-director-admits-hamas-uses-hospitals-for-military-purposes/ar-AA1lJv0h](https://www.msn.com/en-my/news/other/gaza-hospital-director-admits-hamas-uses-hospitals-for-military-purposes/ar-AA1lJv0h) ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2725 "2023-12-19T17:19:12Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > To protect their own citizens, the destruction of Hamas is a necessity for Israel. The IDF is not perfect, and not above criticism, but certainly any actions that can be reasonably understood as necessary to root out Hamas is OK. Once when I left my car for a hike in the desert. Within 5 minutes I was confronted by a jeep containing an officer with a side arm and a GI with a rifle. They said I had to turn around because I was hiking in the direction of their sewage disposal plant. That was more force against one individual in 5 minutes to protect the Navys’ Lake Meade Base sewage plant than was exerted by the IDF before, during or after the Oct 7 rampage against the citizens of Israel. Any whine relating Oct 7 to defending Israel is pure propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2726 "2023-12-19T17:42:11Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > It is obvious by Israels’ actions and statements by [Israeli officials](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-level-gaza-make-like-auschwitz-says-official). the person in you cite is a mayor of a town of 1600 people. He’s shooting his mouth off. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2727 "2023-12-19T17:46:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the person in you cite is a mayor of a town of 1600 people. He is an Israeli official. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2728 "2023-12-19T17:46:48Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > That was more force against one individual in 5 minutes to protect the Navys’ Lake Meade Base sewage plant than was exerted by the IDF before, during or after the Oct 7 rampage against the citizens of Israel. Why is the IDF supposed to use force against the citizens of Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2729 "2023-12-19T17:47:34Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > He is an Israeli official. So? He has no power. He’s mayor of turd town. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2730 "2023-12-19T17:47:55Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Oct 7 rampage against the citizens of Israel. You misunderstood ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2731 "2023-12-19T17:48:43Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > You misunderstood I quoted what you said. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2732 "2023-12-19T17:50:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I quoted what you said. If all you have is semantics I’ll let it stand. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2733 "2023-12-19T17:57:06Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > If all you have is semantics I’ll let it stand. Is English a second language to you? I quoted exactly what you said and then asked a question. What you said made no sense. Why is the IDF supposed to exert force on Israelis? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2734 "2023-12-19T18:01:55Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > The obvious goal is to depopulate Gaza. If so, they aren’t very good at it. .01% of Gaza has been killed, 20,000/2,000,000 including hamas terrorists and civilians killed by hamas rockets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=129) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=131)