# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 137
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2855 "2023-12-23T20:47:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > obviousometer. Obvious - what one would conclude from Israeli actions and published information like the link above and perhaps this [one](https://www.commondreams.org/news/ethnic-cleansing-gaza). ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2856 "2023-12-23T20:54:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > using them as human shields Back to logic 101. Does your post posit that all Gazans are shielding Hamas and therefore can be killed. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2857 "2023-12-23T22:05:48Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > It should have been. [Israel](https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEta09P4dlKIozD5hXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzYEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1703391166/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.haaretz.com%2fisrael-news%2f2023-11-14%2fty-article%2fisraeli-mks-publish-plan-to-transfer-gazans-to-europe-to-alleviate-humanitarian-crisis%2f0000018b-ce7c-d168-a3ef-dffeed320000/RK=2/RS=Uzh_kWs0_fRJiY.gYyprsmZR65c-) has been promoting it. It should have been obvious long ago that a link to a search engine is terrible evidence for anything. If someone used that to back up their claim the sky was blue, I’d go outside and check. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2858 "2023-12-23T22:23:05Z")
…from last night: > [@](#): > > An Israeli airstrike killed 76 members of an extended family, rescue officials said Saturday, a day after the U.N. chief warned again that nowhere is safe in Gaza and that Israel’s ongoing offensive is creating “massive obstacles” to the distribution of humanitarian aid. > > Friday’s strike on a building in Gaza City was among the deadliest of the Israel-Hamas war, now in its 12th week, said Mahmoud Bassal, a spokesman for Gaza’s Civil Defense department. He provided a partial list of the names of those killed — 16 heads of households from the al-Mughrabi family — and said the dead included women and children. > > Among the dead were Issam al-Mughrabi, a veteran employee of U.N. Development Program, his wife, and their five children. > **[Israel strikes 2 homes, killing more than 90 Palestinians. Biden says he...](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-12-23-2023-982fae4d0802b20d2a90423445c9f64b)** > > Friday’s strike on a building in Gaza City was among the deadliest of the war, now in its 12th week. I think it’s time to put to rest the idea that the high level of civilian casualties is because Hamas are using them as “human shields.” This is an [algorithmic lead industrial level bombing campaign](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/the-gospel-how-israel-uses-ai-to-select-bombing-targets) 12,000 targets have been identified by the target administration division. The “Gospel” allows the IDF to produce targets at a fast pace. > [@The Guardian](#): > > According to Kochavi, “once this machine was activated” in Israel’s 11-day war with Hamas in May 2021 it generated 100 targets a day. “To put that into perspective, in the past we would produce 50 targets in Gaza per year. Now, this machine produces 100 targets a single day, with 50% of them being attacked.” We are beyond the point of pretending that this system is only targeting Hamas. Not at the scale of death and destruction we have seen. Not at the complete lack of transparency on how many Hamas soldiers have been killed. The number ranges from 2000 to 10,000 depending on what anonymous IDF spokesperson says on any particular day. But they don’t really know. Because they aren’t keeping track. Just like “Hamas have set up bases in the hospitals”, I think “Hamas are using human shields” can also now be safely ignored. We’ve seen no evidence of this. Not after 70 days of siege and indiscriminate bombing. On another tack: the official count from the CPJ of how many journalists have been killed during this war as of the 23rd of December is 68. The unofficial count, which includes people that might include social media influencers, has just hit 100. > [@](#): > > As of December 23: > > - 69 journalists and media workers were confirmed dead: 62 Palestinian, 4 Israeli, and 3 Lebanese. > - 15 journalists were reported injured. > - 3 journalists were reported missing. > - 20 journalists were reported [arrested](https://cpj.org/2023/11/attacks-arrests-threats-censorship-the-high-risks-of-reporting-the-israel-hamas-war/). > - [Multiple assaults, threats, cyberattacks, censorship, and killings of family members](https://cpj.org/2023/10/attacks-arrests-threats-censorship-the-high-risks-of-reporting-the-israel-hamas-war/). > > CPJ is also investigating numerous unconfirmed reports of other journalists being killed, missing, detained, hurt, or threatened, and of damage to media offices and journalists’ homes. > **[Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war - Committee to Protect Journalists](https://cpj.org/2023/12/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/)** > > Editor’s notes: The list below is CPJ’s most recent and preliminary account of journalist deaths in the war. Our database will not include all of these casualties until we have completed further investigations into the circumstances surrounding them.... > [@](#): > > “CPJ is particularly concerned about an apparent pattern of targeting of journalists and their families by the Israeli military. In at least one case, a journalist was killed while clearly wearing press insignia in a location where no fighting was taking place. In at least two other cases, journalists reported receiving [threats from Israeli officials](https://cpj.org/2023/12/father-of-al-jazeeras-anas-al-sharif-killed-in-gaza-after-journalist-receives-threats/) and Israel Defense Forces officers before their family members were killed.” > **[Israeli military accused of targeting journalists and their families in Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/21/israel-idf-accused-targeting-journalists-gaza)** > > Committee to Protect Journalists says at least 68 journalists and media workers killed since 7 October ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2859 "2023-12-24T00:11:13Z")
…another Washington Post investigative report. Apparently this link is a guest link, and should be accessible by all: > **[Israel has waged one of this century’s most destructive wars in Gaza](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzAzMzA3NjAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzA0Njg5OTk5LCJpYXQiOjE3MDMzMDc2MDAsImp0aSI6ImJhMjI0OTVmLWVkNjQtNGQ2Ni1hNTU2LTEzZWJjMmI4MmI2NCIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9pbnZlc3RpZ2F0aW9ucy9pbnRlcmFjdGl2ZS8yMDIzL2lzcmFlbC13YXItZGVzdHJ1Y3Rpb24tZ2F6YS1yZWNvcmQtcGFjZS8ifQ.mrwttR4wJ0q9n3fv0iZOfhh_lLUz83oY5qfqzdPW6-w&itid=gfta)** > > The damage in Gaza has outpaced other recent conflicts, evidence shows. Israel has dropped some of the largest bombs commonly used today near hospitals. Parallel thread on Twitter by one of the co-authors of the article for anyone that can’t access the article: > Quoting from the Twitter summary: > [@](#): > > In Gaza, Israel has waged what may be the 21st century’s most destructive war, a new visual investigation by The Post has found, destroying more buildings in seven weeks than in Aleppo in three years or in Mosul or Raqqa in one year. > > The Post also found that Israel has repeatedly bombed near hospitals, which are protected under the laws of war. Satellite imagery showed dozens of craters near 17 of northern Gaza’s 28 hospitals, including 10 suggesting the use of 2,000-pound bombs, the largest in regular use. > > … > > Nearly twice as many structures were destroyed in northern Gaza in 7 weeks as were destroyed in Aleppo over 3 years, or in Mosul in 1 year, even though Mosul and Aleppo are both around 1.5 times as big. > > … > > To assess destruction around hospitals, we analyzed U.N. satellite imagery data within 180 meters, the distance at which 250lb bombs can make a building uninhabitable and 2,000lb bombs can damage it beyond repair. We found damage within 180m of all of northern Gaza’s hospitals. > > … > > In Gaza City, imagery and U.N. data showed how Israeli strikes had destroyed much of the neighborhood surrounding al-Quds Hospital, operated by the Palestine Red Crescent Society. On Nov. 12, the hospital ceased operating. > > … > > In 3 locations, like here at al-Karama Hospital, we found 2,000lb-bomb craters about 90 meters or less from hospitals, the distance at which buildings inside the blast radius could be destroyed. > > These craters appear on an Oct. 15 image. Al-Karama was forced to close on Oct. 17. > > … > > “What we have been witnessing is a campaign that was planned, it was a plan, definitely, to close down all the hospitals in the north,” said Léo Cans, head of mission for Palestine with Doctors Without Borders. > > “For me, personally, this is without a doubt the worst I’ve seen,” said Tom Potokar, an ICRC chief surgeon working in Gaza for the 14th time. Potokar has previously worked during conflicts in South Sudan, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Ukraine and elsewhere. > > … > > Zaher > > [@sahloul](https://twitter.com/sahloul) > > , who worked in Aleppo while it was besieged, told me Israel’s war in Gaza was “beyond any disaster that I’ve witnessed at least in the last 15 years or so” and that he believed that attacks on hospitals and other protected sites were intentional. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2860 "2023-12-24T13:14:43Z")
My goof. I didn’t test the link after I posted. Probably was [here](https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEp.tELIhlh94.kLVXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzQEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1703451844/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.haaretz.com%2fisrael-news%2f2023-11-14%2fty-article%2fisraeli-mks-publish-plan-to-transfer-gazans-to-europe-to-alleviate-humanitarian-crisis%2f0000018b-ce7c-d168-a3ef-dffeed320000/RK=2/RS=297HuY1wSKXj.KgSAd4GuTglsUQ-) (tested). ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2861 "2023-12-24T15:42:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@ratatoskK](#): > > > > Everywhere the IDF told people to go has been bombed > > Why it’s almost as if the terrorist faction with no regard for human life was using them as human shields or something. Granted, Hamas are soulless bastards. Up-thread (sorry I can’t find it) you stated that the notion of killing everyone in Gaza was absurd. Do you have an idea on how the IDF could eliminate Hamas without causing an absurd number of civilian casualties? References to similar activities against Germany and Japan 80 years ago aren’t useful in that we should be doing better in this day and age, particularly now that we have a better understanding that strategic bombing doesn’t actually win wars, short of going nuclear which aside from any humanitarian reasons Israel isn’t going to do on its doorstep. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2862 "2023-12-24T16:53:17Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > References to similar activities against Germany and Japan 80 years ago aren’t useful in that we should be doing better in this day and age, particularly now that we have a better understanding that strategic bombing doesn’t actually win wars, short of going nuclear which aside from any humanitarian reasons Israel isn’t going to do on its doorstep. Is it the “going nuclear” part that would be the relevant comparison, or would killing a comparable number of people by _conventional_ means be a relevant comparison? ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2863 "2023-12-24T17:57:01Z")
Hamas is not going to be defeated by bombing, or indirect shelling alone. If Israel really means to eliminate Hamas, the IDF is going to have to get off their precious little butts, and engage in direct urban warfare. Which will mean a lot more Israeli casualties, but that is part of the cost of eliminating Hamas. At some point, the bombing and the indirect shelling no longer have either strategic or tactical value to the effort to eliminate Hamas. It is only killing civilians, which in turn is only breeding the next generations of Palestinian terrorists. Yes, Hamas is hiding amongst civilians, which makes their elimination difficult and dangerous. But if Israel really wants to eliminate Hamas, and at the same time not kill everyone in Gaza, they need to try something different than the same tactics they have been using. Otherwise, all they are doing is a punitive attack, beating the rebellion back underground for a few years until the next attack. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2864 "2023-12-24T18:15:57Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > If Israel really means to eliminate Hamas, the IDF is going to have to get off their precious little butts, and engage in direct urban warfare. That’s been happening for _weeks_. In modern militaries, ground assaults are accompanied by aeriel and artillery bombardment; it’s called “combined arms warfare”. This is why this kind of criticism rings so hollow, and why I’ve mostly given up on responding to this thread. It’s completely unconnected to reality. > [@WreckingCrew](#): > > But if Israel really wants to eliminate Hamas, and at the same time not kill everyone in Gaza, they need to try something different than the same tactics they have been using. You mean, by entering and taking control of territory, unlike in past wars such as 2014? As in, _exactly_ what the IDF is doing this time around? 🙄 🤦‍♂️ > ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2865 "2023-12-24T20:56:36Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You mean, by entering and taking control of territory, unlike in past wars such as 2014? As in, _exactly_ what the IDF is doing this time around? …the way you’ve just glossed over the fact that they’ve now just issued an evacuation order for Central Gaza is just…you understand that this is another significant escalation, right? There were hundreds of thousands of people that couldn’t escape from Northern Gaza. Can you tell me what their status is? The healthcare system has collapsed in the north. There are no functional hospitals there at all. How many neighbourhoods are still intact? What about food? Water? What is the status of the people who couldn’t escape from the north? And is this the fate for Central Gaza? And after Central Gaza has been taken, what happens next? Many of the hospitals in Central Gaza have already been taken by the IDF and been taken out of action. Is the plan to take the rest of them out? And where are the people in Central Gaza supposed to go? You know that 1.9 million out of 2.3 million people are already displayed, right? That thousands of Gazans in Central Gaza had escaped from the north? That many had already been displaced multiple times? They are being herded south to the border. You can’t deny this any more. I’ve quoted United Nations officials who say that h_alf of everyone that has been displaced_ are now in Rafah. Just under a _million people_. They aren’t just “entering and controlling territory.” They are evacuating areas of people, forcing them on a dangerous journey to god-knows-where. Then they are bulldozing and razing much of whats left. News article from AJ yesterday on this: > [@](#): > > Israel’s war on Gaza has once again forced thousands of Palestinians to flee as the Israeli army issued new evacuation orders in the central Gaza Strip. > > Avichay Adraee, the Israeli army spokesman, conveyed the directive on Friday through his social media platforms, urging residents of Bureij camp and other central Gaza areas to promptly vacate their homes and [relocate to the southern city](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/12/23/palestinians-in-central-gaza-flee-along-death-corridor-after-israel-order) of Deir el-Balah. Issued the order through his _social media platforms._ Un-fucking-believable. > **[Photos: Palestinians flee central Gaza after Israel issues evacuation order](https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/12/24/palestinians-flee-homes-in-central-gaza-after-israeli-evacuation-order)** > > Most of those being forced to leave have already been displaced multiple times – with no safe destination in sight. I just had a quick search for Deir el-Balah. From a few weeks ago: > [@](#): > > Several Palestinians were injured Thursday in an Israeli military airstrike targeting the vicinity of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Hospital in Deir al-Balah, in central Gaza Strip, according to an Anadolu correspondent. > > “An Israeli reconnaissance missile struck the surroundings of Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Hospital, resulting in injuries, including children,” said the correspondent. > > Anadolu cameras captured panic and distress among dozens of Palestinians at the site of the airstrike, with bodies lying on the ground. [https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/casualties-reported-as-israeli-airstrike-targets-vicinity-of-hospital-in-deir-al-balah/3076579](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/casualties-reported-as-israeli-airstrike-targets-vicinity-of-hospital-in-deir-al-balah/3076579) From a couple of days ago: > [@](#): > > All Palestinian surgeon Bashir al-Hourani has to work with in the central Gaza school where he helps run a field clinic amid Israel’s pounding offensive is gauze and disinfectant as he treats walking wounded turned away from overstretched hospitals. > > “We don’t have anything else,” he said, showing a bottle of iodine he was using to wash the long operating scar running down the torso and stomach of an injured man. > > … > > “We have dozens like this patient. We have children it’s hard to treat. We change their dressings one day and the next we find infection because there is no sterilisation, there are no specialised places. There are no bin bags,” he said. > > Al-Sayedah Khadija School is located in Deir al-Balah, in the centre of the tiny crowded Palestinian enclave that Israeli forces have been besieging, bombarding and in recent weeks invading in response to a deadly Hamas attack on Oct. 7. [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/only-gauze-iodine-injured-patients-gaza-field-hospital-2023-12-22/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/only-gauze-iodine-injured-patients-gaza-field-hospital-2023-12-22/) From a few hours ago: > [@](#): > > DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza — Dozens were killed in Gaza on Sunday in one of the deadliest strikes of the war, while Israel’s leaders acknowledged the “very heavy price” after 15 soldiers were killed in combat over the weekend. > > The strike hit the Maghazi refugee camp, east of Deir al-Balah. Gaza Health Ministry spokesman Ashraf al-Qidra said at least 60 people were killed and the toll was likely to rise. An AP reporter on the scene watched bodies and wounded being carried in, including children. > **[At least 60 are killed in central Gaza in one of the war's deadliest strikes](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/24/israel-hamas-war-news-12-24-2023/925dde44-a232-11ee-9e0f-972979a6c22b_story.html)** > > Dozens have been killed in Gaza in one of the deadliest strikes of the war Its like some cruel, sadistic game. Nowhere is safe. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2866 "2023-12-24T21:13:27Z")
Actually, they’re both Yahoo search links. But now that I follow them, I see they redirect to the Haaretz article. I saw the Yahoo search URL, and figured I knew what the result was. So, it’s really my mistake for thinking I knew where the URL led from reading it. The article doesn’t really back up the idea that Israelis are trying to send the Gazans to concentration camps. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2867 "2023-12-24T21:43:27Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > The article doesn’t really back up the idea that Israelis are trying to send the Gazans to concentration camps. …in the post you responded to, nobody claimed that " Israelis are trying to send the Gazans to concentration camps." ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2868 "2023-12-24T21:44:25Z")
It was in reference to this. > [@Crane](#): > > It’s been obvious from the beginning that the Israeli goal is to herd all Gazans into concentration camps on the southern border… ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2869 "2023-12-24T21:47:59Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > It was in reference to this. …and at the moment, according to UN spokespeople, just under a million people have been forced into Rafah that is now overcrowded, no food, no water, no shelter, not enough medical care. And Rafah, just like everywhere else in Gaza, is getting regularly bombed. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2870 "2023-12-24T22:17:17Z")
…the latest update from Tedros and WHO: > [@](#): > > Al-Shifa was once Gaza’s biggest hospital. But relentless hostilities and massive numbers of wounded people have brought its capacities to its knees. Now, it can only deliver the most basic of first aid. > > … > > Al-Shifa is also providing refuge to 50,000 displaced people, according to hospital authorities. Indeed, colleagues saw itssurgery wing and other wards overflowing with Gazans seeking safety and shelter. People there are suffering from hunger, and the risk of famine is real, as it is across Gaza. > Amid dire food shortages, the search for food is forcing people into horrible states of hunger and leading some – out of desperation – to take supplies from delivery trucks, as occurred during the joint mission. > I can only imagine the torment that would drive people to such lengths. > > … > > Al-Shifa is a microcosm of the nightmare playing out across Gaza, where drastic shortages of medicines, food, power, water and – above all – safety imperil the population. > > The joint mission also visited the NGO-run Patient Friends Hospital, which provides maternity, trauma and emergency care. It performs 6-8 operations a day but lacks specialized vascular surgeons, neurosurgeons and intensive care staff, plusantibiotics, pain relief medicines and external fixators. > > Al-Helou Hospital, which specializes in maternity care, manages10-15 deliveries daily, including four C-sections. It urgently needs fuel, food and drinking water. > > The larger Al-Sahaba Maternity Hospital, which handles around 20 deliveries, including 12 C-sections, daily, is functioning with only three doctors, only one of whom can perform C-sections. It faces oxygen, antibiotics and anesthesia shortages. > > Hospitals should be places for care and recovery, not danger and unrelenting suffering. > From yesterday, an article on AJ about the hunger crisis: > [@](#): > > Since early October, Israeli attacks across Gaza have [damaged local bakeries](https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/11/2/gaza-bakeries-destroyed-by-israeli-strikes) and food warehouses, along with roads that are used to transport humanitarian aid. Israel’s total blockade on the enclave has also restricted food, water and fuel from entering in the first place. > > … > > The IPC has five phases of acute food insecurity, ranging from none (phase one) to catastrophe or famine (phase five). Phase three and five are considered crisis and emergency. > > … > > Between December and February, Gaza’s entire population is projected to fall under phase three or above, according to the United Nations-backed report. > > If current hostilities and limited aid continue, Gaza is also at risk of experiencing a famine by early February. The IPC definition of famine is when at least 20 percent of the population in an area falls under phase five of acute food insecurity. > [@](#): > > Spending a day without eating any food has become usual. In early December, the World Food Programme (WFP) reported that nine out of 10 people across the enclave skip meals for long periods. > > Nutritionally vulnerable groups such as pregnant women are at heightened risk, while [baby formula](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/11/18/letter-to-my-baby-in-gaza-im-sorry-i-dreamt-of-a-better-future) and milk have been in severely short supply for toddlers who rely on it. > > … > > Access to water is also scarce, with less than two litres (0.5 gallons) available for each person per day – far short of the 15 litres needed to survive, according to the WFP. > **[Famine by February: How bad is the hunger crisis in Israeli-besieged Gaza?](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/23/famine-by-february-how-bad-is-gazas-hunger-crisis-under-israeli-attacks)** > > A UN-backed report has recorded mounting starvation in Gaza while aid remains restricted. So Gaza has about a month before _famine_. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2871 "2023-12-25T00:07:28Z")
…I’ve been following MoTaz on Twitter since the start of the war. He’s a Palestinian journalist who has built a large social-media following. He’s just posted this latest update: > [@](#): > > A quadcopter is above the front of my house door right now. > We are terrified and don’t know what to do > It was loaded when we first saw it but we couldn’t film it due to darkness and fear of being targeted > This is so fucking terrifying. And so very, very _dystopian_. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2872 "2023-12-25T04:23:29Z")
Fuck Netanyahu and the IDF. > **[Israeli forces ‘massacre’ at least 70 in Gaza’s al-Maghazi refugee camp](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/24/israeli-forces-massacre-at-least-70-people-in-gazas-maghazi-refugee-camp)** > > The attack is one of the deadliest of the nearly three-month-long war. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2873 "2023-12-25T06:55:25Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Fuck Netanyahu and the IDF. > > [‘Massacre’ as Israel steps up Gaza bombardment for Christmas | Israel-Palestine conflict News | Al Jazeera](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/24/israeli-forces-massacre-at-least-70-people-in-gazas-maghazi-refugee-camp) …major airstrikes tonight on Al Nuseirat, Al Bureij and Al Maghazi tonight. All in the Deir al-Balah district, the area that the new evacuation order for central Gaza people _were told to go._ Its like its one big sick joke. All on Christmas Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2874 "2023-12-25T21:45:29Z")
…we got our first insight into how the IDF are holding Palestinians they have detained in Gaza. The exact source of the footage is unknown, but the description here describes it as “reportedly edited together by an Israeli photographer currently embedded with an IDF unit in the northern Gaza Strip.” The video shows what appears to be a sports stadium that looks like it has been repurposed as a detention centre. Adult men (and in some frames, we can see children) have been stripped to their underwear, and forced to kneel en masse in the middle of the field. In other frames, groups of women and children are photographed. > I’m not going to link to this one because the photos are just so horrific. But a Palestinian journalist a couple of hours ago has made it into Beit Hanoun, northern Gaza. The IDF reportedly withdrew from the city on the 24th. Beit Hanoun is practically rubble. The hospital destroyed. The graveyard destroyed. At the entrance to the city he shows fully decomposed bodies, just lying in the middle of the street, skulls, rib cages. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=136) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=138)