# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 152
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3155 "2023-12-31T02:13:42Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The decision to end the siege only requires one party. And that party, in this instance, is Israel. That’s bullshit. This is a war. Something that seems to escape you completely. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3156 "2023-12-31T02:16:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s bullshit. This is a war. Something that seems to escape you completely. …some call it a war. South Africa’s’ submission to the International Court calls it a genocide. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3157 "2023-12-31T02:27:25Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > South Africa’s’ submission to the International Court calls it a genocide. Some may call that a “submission”, me, I call that [Blood Libel.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-29/ty-article/israel-rejects-south-africas-pursuit-of-genocide-order-from-top-un-court/0000018c-b6cd-db94-afbd-b6fdc7410000) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3158 "2023-12-31T02:33:47Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Some may call that a “submission”, me, I call that [Blood Libel.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-29/ty-article/israel-rejects-south-africas-pursuit-of-genocide-order-from-top-un-court/0000018c-b6cd-db94-afbd-b6fdc7410000) …I mean, you can call it that if you like. But the submission is well documented, well argued, well sourced, shows a clear pattern that has existed for _decades_, and contains multiple statements from Israeli leadership that clearly shows intent. And on the other hand, we’ve got a _two-word-rebuttal_, that doesn’t address the submission at all. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3159 "2023-12-31T04:05:02Z")
…yet another journalist killed today. I think that was three so far in the last 24 hours. Nermin Haboush. > Jaber Abu Hadrous > Ahmad Khair al-Din > That’s (at least) 108 journalists killed so far. All three of the latest deaths happened in their family homes (like most of the other deaths) , along with members of their family. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3160 "2023-12-31T14:30:44Z")
I didn’t realize that there was a new modern twist on the blood libel canard. I get it, it’s really just a matter of increased scale and the use modern techniques. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3161 "2023-12-31T14:53:18Z")
I dunno. I think when you’ve killed 1% of the population, herded the rest into smaller and smaller territories, destroyed most of the homes and infrastructure of the entire region, and created conditions where outright famine is just around the corner, it’s not “libel” to say that it looks like you are committing ethnic cleansing. Even if that’s not the goal, it sure looks like that’s what is actually happening. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3162 "2023-12-31T22:07:56Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > dunno. I think when you’ve killed 1% of the population, herded the rest into smaller and smaller territories, destroyed most of the homes and infrastructure of the entire region, and created conditions where outright famine is just around the corner, it’s not “libel” to say that it looks like you are committing ethnic cleansing. By that standard, the US ethnically cleansed Japan. > **[Japan During World War II (U.S. National Park Service)](https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/japan-during-world-war-ii.htm)** > [@](#): > > During the war, more than 1 million Japanese children were evacuated from cities to the relative safety of the countryside, splitting up families in the process. Rationing and food shortages were rampant throughout the country, beginning as early as 1940. Although official estimates are unclear, by the end of the war in 1945 approximately three percent of the Japanese population, more than 2 million people, had died. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3163 "2023-12-31T22:23:48Z")
Japan was an actual nation state that declared war on us. Gaza is not and did not. That’s one big difference. Another is that the Axis powers were potentially an existential threat to the US and other allied powers. Gaza and even Hamas are certainly not for Israel. The real existential threat to Israel is the horrendous mismanagement by their government, up to and likely including this war. I don’t buy that the extreme right has zero influence in how the IDF runs and how it performs in war - the government has been lead by the extreme right for many years, and it’s not credible that the IDF has not been impacted at all by this long term leadership. Skepticism is more than warranted IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3164 "2023-12-31T22:49:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t buy that the extreme right has zero influence in how the IDF runs and how it performs in war - the government has been lead by the extreme right for many years, and it’s not credible that the IDF has not been impacted at all by this long term leadership. For sure it has; that is not the claim I made. That’s not the claim being made. If you want examples of ways that the right hurts the IDF both in effectiveness and morality, there’s a great example of that from upthread. The guy you brought up earlier, who shot a civilian who had shot a terrorist - he was originally rejected by the IDF for being one of these “hilltop youth” we’ve mentioned, just like years ago Ben Gvir was rejected for being too much of a fanatic to serve in the IDF. But unlike back when Ben Gvir was a young boy dreaming of killing Arabs, nowadays there are fanatics like Ben Gvir in Parliament, and through their odious influence programs like the one that recruited Aviad Frija came about. To my understanding, he isn’t a normal soldier - as a “hilltop youth” he isn’t eligible to be one. Instead, he was recruited as part of a program where the IDF brings in external commanders and then recruits units of these fanatic settlers to use as scouts (since they know the West Bank very well). In theory, this is meant to be a way to “rehabilitate” them, but in practice, they tend to continue acting like terrorists while wearing the uniform. They’re an unmitigated disaster, and one of many examples of ways that the political right _has_ managed to poison the IDF. These facts don’t make the war to destroy Hamas in Gaza Bibi’s war, or a right wing war, or a genocidal war. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3165 "2023-12-31T23:42:07Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > These facts don’t make the war to destroy Hamas in Gaza Bibi’s war, or a right wing war, or a genocidal war. I agree. But these facts make success in this war (and the aftermath) much, much harder, and mean that greater scrutiny is warranted. How much of the IDF’s leadership, and how many of their mid-level commanders, share some of these extreme right-wing views? I’m sure it’s not zero percent. And it makes me wonder if this IDF is even capable of justly prosecuting this just war. An extreme example to compare would be a southern police force during Jim Crow investigating serious crimes that may have been perpetrated by Black Americans within the local community. Even if the crimes were real and terrible, there’s little chance that the police force’s investigation would proceed without bias (and likely without serious abuses). The IDF probably isn’t quite that compromised, but how compromised is it? I don’t know. We may not know for months or longer. But I don’t think it’s credible that none of the numerous tragic incidents involving ordinary Gazans aren’t impacted by these sorts of elements. Hopefully it’s very few. But it might be very many, and I don’t think you’d know it. Also, separately, I think Bibi wants to make this his war, and a right-wing war, and a war to keep him in power. Hopefully he won’t succeed, but he’s (unfortunately) a very skilled politician. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3166 "2024-01-01T00:15:08Z")
…an article by Prof Devi Sridhar, the chair of global public health at the University of Edinburgh, on some of the potential long-term affects of the siege: > [@](#): > > Tragically, the nearly unprecedented death and injury we have seen so far is likely to only be the beginning. From looking at similar conflicts across the world, public health experts know that we are likely to see more children dying from preventable disease than from bullets and bombs. While the Israeli government has spoken about [safe zones](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/07/idf-israel-gaza-refuge-zones-cruel-mirage-say-aid-agencies) for families to flee to, these aren’t anywhere near what we would consider safe public health zones. They don’t have clean water, functional sanitation and toilets, enough food, or trained medical staff with medicine and equipment. These are the basic needs that any human, especially babies and children, need to stay healthy and alive. > > The [WHO spokesperson Dr Margaret Harris](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67554394) has said that diarrhoea rates among children in refugee-like camps (sheltered housing) in Gaza were, in early November, already more than 100 times normal levels, and with no treatments available, children can become dehydrated and die quickly. Diarrhoeal diseases are the [second leading cause of death in children](https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/diarrhoeal-disease) under five worldwide, and they are caused by contaminated water sources and lack of access to oral rehydration fluids. Upper respiratory infections, chickenpox, and painful skin conditions [have also increased](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/humanitarian-coordinator-for-the-occupied-palestinian-territory-lynn-hastings-briefs-the-press-in-geneva/), and there are fears that the recent floods may result in untreated sewage mixing with fresh water used for drinking and cooking, and cause a [cholera outbreak](https://www.rescue.org/uk/press-release/near-collapse-healthcare-system-gaza-and-almost-no-access-safe-water-irc-warns). > > … > > An estimated [85% of Gaza’s](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/08/gaza-israel-strikes-un-official) inhabitant are already displaced according to the UN Relief and Works Agency. Experts analysing previous refugee displacements [estimate in the Lancet](https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(02)11807-1.pdf) that crude mortality rates (that is deaths per 1,000 people) were more than 60 times higher than when each conflict began, on average. Extrapolating this to the current situation in Gaza, where the crude death rate before the conflict was [3.82 in 2021](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1423936/death-rate-in-palestine/) ([relatively low](https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/Palestine/life_expectancy_male/) because of its young demographic), mortality rates could reach 229.2 in 2024 if the conflict and displacement continue at the current level of intensity, and Gazans continue to lack access to sanitation, medical facilities and permanent housing. > > Ultimately, unless something changes, the world faces the prospect of almost a quarter of [Gaza’s 2 million population](https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/gaza-the-most-densely-populated-area-of-the-world/) **-** **close to half- a million human beings - dying within a year.** These would be largely deaths from preventable health causes and the collapse of the medical system. It’s a crude estimate, but one that is data-driven, using the terrifyingly real numbers of deaths in previous and comparable conflicts. > **[It’s not just bullets and bombs. I have never seen health organisations as...](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/29/health-organisations-disease-gaza-population-outbreaks-conflict)** > > A quarter of its Gaza’s population could die within a year due to outbreaks caused by this unprecedented conflict, says Devi Sridhar, chair of global public health at the University of Edinburgh From the SA submission to the International Court: > [@](#): > > Across Gaza, Israel has targeted the infrastructure and foundations of Palestinian life, deliberately creating conditions of life calculated to bring about the physical destruction of Palestinian people. In addition to the attacks previously cited on homes, neighbourhoods, hospitals, > water systems, agricultural lands, bakeries and mills, Israel has also targeted the foundational civil system in Gaza. Israel has targeted the Palace of Justice, 400 — the main Palestinian court building in Gaza — housing the Palestinian Supreme Court, the Constitutional Court, the Court of Appeal, the Court of First Instance, the Administrative Court and the Magistrates’ Court, as well as an archive of court records and other historical files. Israel has also significantly damaged the Palestinian Legislative Council complex.401 It has targeted Gaza City’s Central Archive building, containing thousands of historical documents and national records dating back over 100 years, and forming an essential archive of Palestinian history, as well as more modern records for Gaza City’s urban development. > [@](#): > > Israel has left Gaza City’s main public library in ruins.403 It has also damaged or destroyed countless bookshops, publishing houses, libraries,404 and hundreds of educational facilities.405 Israel has targeted every one of Gaza’s four universities — including the Islamic University of Gaza, the oldest higher education institution in the territory, which has trained generations of doctors and engineers, > amongst others, 406 — destroying campuses for the education of future generations of Palestinians in > Gaza. Alongside so many others, Israel has killed leading Palestinian academics, including: Professor Sufian Tayeh, the President of the Islamic University — an award-winning physicist and UNESCO Chair of Astronomy, Astrophysics and Space Sciences in Palestine — who died, alongside his family, in an airstrike; Dr Ahmed Hamdi Abo Absa, Dean of the Software Engineering Department at the > University of Palestine, reportedly shot dead by Israeli soldiers as he walked away, having been released > from three days of enforced disappearance; and Professor Muhammad Eid Shabir, Professor of Immunology and Virology, and former President of the Islamic University of Gaza, and Professor Refaat Alareer, poet and Professor of Comparative Literature and Creative Writing at the Islamic > University of Gaza, were both killed by Israel with members of their families. Professor Alareer was a co-founder of ‘We are Not Numbers’, a Palestinian youth project seeking to tell the stories behind otherwise impersonal accounts of Palestinians — and Palestinian deaths — in the news > [@](#): > > Israel has damaged and destroyed numerous centres of Palestinian learning and culture, including: the Al Zafar Dmari Mosque and Center for Manuscripts and Ancient Documents;408 the Orthodox Cultural Centre; the Al Qarara Cultural Museum; the Gaza Centre for Culture and Arts; the > Arab Social Cultural Centre; the Hakawi Society for Culture and Arts; and the Rafah Museum — Gaza’s newly opened museum of Palestinian heritage, housing hundreds of cultural and archaeological artefacts. Israel’s attacks have destroyed Gaza’s ancient history: eight sites have been damaged or destroyed, including the ancient port of Gaza (known as ‘Anthedon Harbour’ or ‘Al Balakhiya’) — the > archaeological site of a 2,000-year-old Roman cemetery listed on both the Islamic Heritage List and the tentative UNESCO World Heritage List. > 409 Israel has also destroyed Gaza City’s ‘Old City’, including its 146-year-old historic houses, mosques, churches, markets and schools. > [@](#): > > Israel has damaged or destroyed an estimated 318 Muslim and Christian religious sites, demolishing the places where Palestinians have worshipped for generations.413 These include the Great Omari Mosque, originally a fifth century Byzantine church, an iconic landmark of Gaza’s history, > architecture and cultural heritage, and a place of worship by Christians and Muslims for over 1,000 years.414 Israeli shelling has also damaged the Church of Saint Porphyrius, founded in 425 AD and believed to be the third oldest church in the world — alongside two other churches that have sustained direct Israeli fire. > 415 Gaza’s Christians themselves have been targeted and killed by Israel in the very church compounds where they sought shelter.416 The sheer scale of the deliberate destruction of the cultural legacy of the Palestinian people is astounding. There is no _rebuilding this_. And immediately after reading this, I saw this video that was filmed, edited, and uploaded by IDF soldiers that showed them blowing up a Mosque: (Link to a reshare on Twitter) > And I’m like, if you are going to be filming your warcrimes, do you really want one of the videos presented to the International Criminal Court be one of you mugging for the camera while pulling down your pants and pretending to take a shit? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3167 "2024-01-01T00:27:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Japan was an actual nation state that declared war on us. Gaza is not and did not. Hamas was duly elected by the people of Gaza. If it’s not a state then where is their claim to the land? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3168 "2024-01-01T01:21:44Z")
Hamas faced one election over a decade ago and has since been propped up by numerous other powers including the Netanyahu-led Israeli government. The claim to Gaza by Gazans is self explanatory, and if you don’t accept it, it’s not worth discussing with you. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3169 "2024-01-01T01:21:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Hamas was duly elected by the people of Gaza. If it’s not a state then where is their claim to the land?. What a strange bunch of non sequitors. Any “claim” to any land that any country on Earth claims is complete and utter horseshit. If you needed a “claim” to have a country that’streated as sovereign by the international community, there certainly wouldn’t be a United States, or a Canada, or an Australia, or a New Zealand, or… And does any country on Earth answer the question of “which China is China” based on a sober assessment of which country has the more legitimate historical “claim”, as opposed to geopolitical concerns? Like everything else, possession is 9/10ths of the law. There are Palestinians in Gaza; at the moment they are suffering the same fate that every other stateless people suffers, to one extent or another. The people of Gaza need a government for the same reason anyone else does: to provide basic services, to protect them from external threats, and to police bad actors within. And they’re people who live in Gaza, so that’s where that government should be (along with the West Bank). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3170 "2024-01-01T02:46:22Z")
I agree that the Gazan people have a fair claim to their homeland, but they’re not going to be able to exercise it until Hamas is out of the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3171 "2024-01-01T09:44:37Z")
Even if Hamas is out of the picture fanatics like Ben Gvir and Smotrich will still do everything they can to prevent the Gazans from exercising any of their rights. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3172 "2024-01-01T18:46:21Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > What a strange bunch of non sequitors. Take it up with iiandyiiii. That is who claimed Gaza is not a nation state. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3173 "2024-01-01T20:09:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Hamas faced one election over a decade ago and has since been propped up by numerous other powers including the Netanyahu-led Israeli government. The people propping up Hamas militarily is Iran. Netanyahu and the Israeli government were not doing this. The blockade by Egypt and Israel was because of this. It’s an absurd claim to say Israel was propping up their enemy. And the idea that Hamas is some outside group separate from Palestinians is too simplistic. They came from and are a part of the people of Gaza. To the extent they can be separated out remains to be seen. Hamas needs to be defeated. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3174 "2024-01-01T20:29:15Z")
Interesting analysis of [IDF](https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEt4p9HJNlQecT0bZXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1704168702/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.aljazeera.com%2fnews%2f2024%2f1%2f1%2fanalysis-is-the-israeli-army-as-militarily-successful-as-it-claims/RK=2/RS=aEneeADcMGfX0SPDEG63KDuO4ws-) actions in Gaza and of [FF](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/21/why-is-israels-military-killing-so-many-of-its-own) casualties. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=151) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=153)