# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 155
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3215 "2024-01-05T01:49:25Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Your comparison of the current Israeli War Cabinet to a single US Representative is utterly absurd. Then it’s a good thing I didn’t do that. I compared the rantings of Ben Gvir or Smotrich (two politicians who are _not_ on the war cabinet) with the ramblings of MTG. The war cabinet members were brought up as sources that _are_ potentially indicative of Israeli policy, unlike Ben Gvir or Smotrich. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3216 "2024-01-05T01:50:30Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > What they say while holding those positions has to be viewed as the official opinion of the Israel government at this time. That is kind of the point of being the War Cabinet That’s exactly why they were brought up as a more reliable source of information than Ben Gvir or Smotrich. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3217 "2024-01-05T02:00:29Z")
…from the genocide submission: > [@](#): > > 1. Evidence of Israeli State officials’ specific intent (‘dolus specialis’) to commit and persist in > committing genocidal acts or to fail to prevent them has been significant and overt since October 2023. > Those statements of intent — when combined with the level of killing, maiming, displacement and > destruction on the ground, together with the siege — evidence an unfolding and continuing genocide. > They include statements by the following individuals in the positions of the highest responsibility: > > … > > Prime Minister of Israel: > > … > > 3, in a letter to Israeli soldiers and officers also published on the platform ‘X’ (formerly Twitter); the letter asserted that: “[t]his is the war between the sons of light and the sons of darkness. We will not let up on our mission until the light overcomes the darkness — the good will defeat the extreme evil that threatens us and the entire world > > … > > 5 On 28 October 2023, as Israeli forces prepared their land > invasion of Gaza, the Prime Minister invoked the Biblical story of the total destruction of Amalek by the Israelites, stating: “you must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember”.446 The Prime Minister referred again to Amalek in the letter sent on 3 November 2023 to Israeli soldiers and officers.447 The relevant biblical passage reads as follows: “Now go, attack Amalek, and proscribe all that belongs to him. Spare no one, but kill alike men and women, infants and sucklings, oxen and sheep, camels and asses”.448 > > … > > President of Israel: On 12 October 2023, President Isaac Herzog made clear that Israel was not distinguishing between militants and civilians in Gaza, stating in a press conference to foreign media — in relation Palestinians in Gaza, over one million of whom are children: “It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. It’s not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware not involved. It’s absolutely not true. … and we will fight until we break their backbone.”449 > On 15 October 2023, echoing the words of Prime Minister Netanyahu, the President told foreign media that “we will uproot evil so that there will be good for the entire region and the world.”450 The Israeli President is one of many Israelis to have handwritten ‘messages’ on bombs to be > dropped on Gaza.451 > > … > > Israeli Minister of Defence: On 9 October 2023, Defence Minister Yoav Gallant in an Israeli Army ‘situation update’ advised that Israel was “imposing a complete siege on Gaza. No electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.”452 He also informed troops on the Gaza border that he had “released all the restraints”,453 stating in terms that: “Gaza won’t return to what it was before. We will > eliminate everything. If it doesn’t take one day, it will take a week. It will take weeks or even months, we will reach all places.”454 He further announced that Israel was moving to “a fullscale response” and that he had “removed every restriction” on Israeli forces.455 > > … > > Israeli Minister of Energy and Infrastructure: ‘Tweeting’ on 13 October 2023, Israel Katz stated: “All the civilian population in Gaza is ordered to leave immediately. We will win. They will not receive a drop of water or a single battery until they leave the world.”457 On 12 October 2023, he ‘tweeted’: “Humanitarian aid to Gaza? No electrical switch will be turned on, no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli abductees are returned home. Humanitarianism for humanitarianism. And no one will preach us morality.”458 > > … > > Israeli Minister of Heritage: On 1 November 2023, Amichai Eliyahu posted on Facebook: “The north of the Gaza Strip, more beautiful than ever. Everything is blown up and flattened, simply a pleasure for the eyes … We must talk about the day after. In my mind, we will hand over lots to all those who fought for Gaza over the years and to those evicted from Gush Katif” [a former Israeli settlement].460 He later argued against humanitarian aid as “[w]e wouldn’t hand the Nazis humanitarian aid”, and “there is no such thing as uninvolved civiliansin Gaza”.461 He also posited a nuclear attack on the Gaza Strip.462 > > Israeli Minister of Agriculture: On 11 November 2023, Avi Dichter in a television interview recalled the Nakba of 1948, in which over 80 percent of the Palestinian population of > the new Israeli State was forced from or fled their homes, stating that “[w]e are now actually rolling out the Gaza Nakba”.463 > > — Deputy Speaker of the Knesset and Member of the Foreign Affairs and Security Committee: On 7 October 2023, Nissim Vaturi ‘tweeted’ that: “[n]ow we all have one common > goal — erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth. Those who are unable will be replaced.”464 > > … > > Israeli Army Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (‘COGAT’): On 9 October 2023, in a video statement addressed to Hamas and Gaza residents, published by COGAT’s official channel, Major General Ghassan Alian warned: “Hamas became ISIS and > the citizens of Gaza are celebrating instead of being horrified. Human animals are dealt with accordingly. Israel has imposed a total blockade on Gaza, no electricity, no water, just damage. > You wanted hell, you will get hell.”465 > > — Israeli Army Reservist Major General, former Head of the Israeli National Security Council, and adviser to the Defence Minister: 466 On 7 October 2023, Giora Eiland, describing > the Israeli order to cut off water and electricity to Gaza, wrote in an online journal: “This is what Israel has begun to do — we cut the supply of energy, water and diesel to the Strip . . . > But it’s not enough. In order to make the siege effective, we have to prevent others from giving assistance to Gaza . . . The people should be told that they have two choices; to stay and to starve, or to leave. If Egypt and other countries prefer that these people will perish in Gaza, this is their choice. Much…much more at the link. > **[192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf](https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf)** ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3218 "2024-01-05T02:16:34Z")
In the post I quoted you said regarding public statements of the war Cabinet: “It’s certainly _much more indicative_ of Israel’s official stance, yes” That is where you lost me. If statements by the current sitting government do not reflect Israel’s current official stance, then who is running the country? I fully appreciate that a new government could have a new official stance, making current statements meaningless, but we can only go with what we have today. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3219 "2024-01-05T02:37:02Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > “It’s certainly _much more indicative_ of Israel’s official stance, yes” They’re the ones whose statements are indicative of Israel’s official stance, yes. I only used some qualifiers because sometimes they contradict each other, and I didn’t want to have something one of them said once and then retracted and that the other two always opposed thrown in my face, for example. > [@WreckingCrew](#): > > If statements by the current sitting government do not reflect Israel’s current official stance, then who is running the country? Wouldn’t we like to know? 🤣 I can tell you who is robbing our coffers during wartime to lavishly spend on Yeshivas and religious sites in Jerusalem; I can tell you who is railing against the Supreme Court in extremely divisive ways that strain our already divided society; and I can tell you who is misappropriating the machinery of the state to try to keep themselves out of prison. But who is doing the difficult job of _running things_? Snark aside, yes, the war cabinet is who you should be listening to for official Israeli policy. My criticism has more to do with the fact that they’ve barely done anything to address domestic problems, reign in whackjob ministers like Smotrich and Ben Gvir, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3220 "2024-01-05T03:16:59Z")
@Babale, who would you say is the best (or, failing that, least worst) alternative to Bibi as a potential future PM? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3221 "2024-01-05T05:09:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > who would you say is the best (or, failing that, least worst) alternative to Bibi as a potential future PM? I’ll give you three answers. The “least bad/actually gonna happen” answer, the “would be nice but probably not gonna happen” answer, and the “who I would be voting for” answer. The Prime Minister when Bibi is out will almost certainly be Gantz. It’s possible that something unexpected will change that - we _are_ in a war, after all - but I wouldn’t bet on it. Blue White is a party that at this point mostly exists to say “look, we aren’t Bibi!”. And that’s admirable - we truly need more people who aren’t Bibi in the world, that’s great - but it also isn’t really a _platform_. So this is the “least bad” option, because at least it’s not Bibi, and once he’s gone the political field will shift enough that someone else could become viable. Slightly better would be Yair Lapid, of Yesh Atid. See, Blue White was originally an alliance of centrist and left wing parties intending to take down Netanyahu. Yair Lapid of Yesh Atid brought much of the policy to the alliance. When the alliance broke apart and Blue White somehow inexplicably remained standing, Yesh Atid took their policy planks and went home while Gantz was left with “Look, no Bibi here!”. But Lapid had a few scandals and missteps and ended up relegated to the Opposition. Still, Bibi’s fall could shake things up enough for Lapid to return. And the people I’d be voting for (we’ll get to that) would in all likelihood end up supporting Lapid in building a coalition, so my vote would basically be supporting him - which I’d be fine with; his policies are alright, he’s got his eye on the prize of a two state solution, and so on. But if I were living in Israel I’d not be voting for either Blue White or Yesh Atid; I’d be voting for Labor, and Merav Michaeli. Practically, Labor hasn’t been doing super well, due to a whole host of factors that are too complex to get into in this post, which means the Labor ministers who get in would join Lapid, either in the opposition or in a coalition led by Yesh Atid. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3222 "2024-01-05T05:18:57Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But if I were living in Israel I’d not be voting for either Blue White or Yesh Atid; I’d be voting for Labor, and Merav Michaeli. I didn’t realize you weren’t living in Israel. You’re one of the the closest things to “boots on the ground” that this board has had since 10/7 and your insider perspective has been very informative to me. Do Israelis living abroad not get to cast absentee votes? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3223 "2024-01-05T05:30:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I didn’t realize you weren’t living in Israel. I grew up there, and most of my family (everyone aside from my parents and brother) live there; I still visit often, speak Hebrew to my kids, etc so I try to stay connected. But the super up to date questions are better directed at Alessan. > [@Smapti](#): > > your insider perspective has been very informative to me. I appreciate the kind words 🙂 > [@Smapti](#): > > Do Israelis living abroad not get to cast absentee votes? No, Israelis living abroad cannot vote, aside from diplomats and the like. I believe I am _eligible_ to vote, despite lacking an Israeli address, but only if I travel to Israel to cast my ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3224 "2024-01-05T05:56:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > No, Israelis living abroad cannot vote, aside from diplomats and the like. > > I believe I am _eligible_ to vote, despite lacking an Israeli address, but only if I travel to Israel to cast my ballot. That’s disappointing. IMO more countries should follow the French model where citizens living abroad have their own constituencies in the legislature, but I don’t know how that’d work with Knesset elections being at-large. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3225 "2024-01-07T03:21:34Z")
[French and Jordanian air drops.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/france-and-jordan-airdrop-aid-to-gaza-as-un-says-strip-has-become-uninhabitable/) 2 C-130’s dropping aid to hospital using directional parachute system. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3226 "2024-01-07T03:46:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > 2 C-130’s dropping aid to hospital using directional parachute system. …I saw that. From what I could gather from the sources I could see, this series of drops was done without the co-operation of Israel, although I stand to be corrected. This would be a significant escalation by other countries to break the blockade. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3227 "2024-01-07T15:51:55Z")
Hamza, son of Al Jazeera’s Wael Dahdouh, killed in Israeli attack in Gaza [Hamza, son of Al Jazeera’s Wael Dahdouh, killed in Israeli attack in Gaza | Israel War on Gaza News | Al Jazeera](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/7/hamza-son-of-al-jazeeras-wael-dahdouh-killed-in-israeli-attack-in-gaza) Yeah, Al Jazeera hates Israel. But an awful lot of journalists have been killed in this war. They claim that s car carrying journalists, in a “safe zone”, interviewing civilians, was targeted. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3228 "2024-01-07T23:20:59Z")
…when you look at the aftermath of the strike that killed both Wael Dahdouh and Mustafa Thuraya: (Link to Twitter, I’ve spoiled the link even though the destruction is so total that you can’t really see anything) [https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1743938367945937366](https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1743938367945937366) You see it was the result of a precision strike of the sorts that we _know_ Israel is capable of, that they’ve used multiple times in the past to take out Hamas senior operatives. A single car, in the middle of the street, nothing else around. So many other journalists in Gaza were killed in their homes with their families while they slept. The official number of verified journalist deaths in Gaza is 72. The running total in Wiki including those killed in Southern Lebanon is 86. The toll including people like social media influencers is over 100. The war on journalists continues. > **[List of journalists killed in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war)** > > Military engagements > Attacks > Spillover As does the war on hospitals. The latest hospital in the firing line, Al-Aqsa Hospital in the middle of Gaza. The latest update from Tedros: > [@WHO](#): > > . > > [@WHO](https://twitter.com/WHO) > > has received troubling reports of increasing hostilities and ongoing evacuation orders near the vital Al-Aqsa Hospital in the Middle Area of [#Gaza](https://twitter.com/hashtag/Gaza?src=hashtag_click), which according to the facility’s director forced over 600 patients and most health workers to leave. Their locations are not currently known. > > … > > The health facility reported immense needs, especially health workers, medical supplies and beds. But staff said their greatest need was for their hospital, and its staff, patients and families there, to be protected from strikes and hostilities. > > … > > No hospitals are fully functioning in Northern Gaza, where another WHO mission was cancelled today due to dangers and lack of necessary permissions. Elsewhere in Gaza, a mere handful of health facilities operate. > > At Al-Aqsa, WHO staff saw sickening scenes of people of all ages being treated on blood-streaked floors and in chaotic corridors. An unidentified child laid dead, partially covered by a sheet, on a bed. Other injured were prostrate on the floor, being stepped over by the health staff and families. A man’s harrowing groans, either from pain or anguish, cut through the emergency ward’s commotion. > > … > > Al-Aqsa is extremely short-staffed. Partners at > > [@MedicalAidPal](https://twitter.com/MedicalAidPal) > > and > > [@RESCUEorg](https://twitter.com/RESCUEorg) > > announced today that due to increasing military activity around Al-Aqsa Hospital they have been forced to withdraw their staff working at the hospital and cease activities. On 6 Jan > > [@MSF](https://twitter.com/MSF) > > took similar action due to evacuation orders in areas close to the hospital. > > During today’s mission, we were informed that evacuation orders and lack of safety had forced most health staff to leave. Tonight’s reports indicate that only 5 doctors remain. Hospital management said health workers had no food. > > … > > Al-Aqsa is the most important hospital remaining in Gaza’s Middle Area and must remain functional, and protected, to deliver its lifesaving services. Further erosion of its functionality cannot be permitted – doing so in the face of such trauma, injury and humanitarian suffering would be a moral and medical outrage. > The announcement from MSF from a couple of days ago where they announced they were pulling their staff out of the hospital: > [@MSF](#): > > After days of artillery fighting in [#Gaza](https://twitter.com/hashtag/Gaza?src=hashtag_click)’s Middle Area and following late morning evacuation order flyers dropped by Israeli forces for neighborhoods around [#AlAqsa](https://twitter.com/hashtag/AlAqsa?src=hashtag_click) hospital where MSF works, MSF took the difficult decision to evacuate staff and their families from the area. > > “It is with heavy conscience that we have to evacuate while patients, hospital staff and many people seeking safety remain in the hospital premises,” says Carolina Lopez, emergency coordinator at Al-Aqsa hospital. > > Yesterday, at 13:30, a bullet heavily penetrated a wall in Al-Aqsa hospital’s intensive care unit. Over the last couple of days, drone attacks and snipers fire were just a few hundred meters from the hospital. > > “The situation became so dangerous that some staff living in the neighbouring areas were not able to leave their houses because of the constant threats of drones and snipers,” says Lopez. “Patient care was being affected with reduced staff at the hospital.” > > “We reiterate that Israel has an obligation under International Humanitarian Law to protect patients and staff who are still working in the only functioning hospital in Gaza’s Middle Area,” Lopez added. > We can see the impact of how Israel have targeted other hospitals in Gaza. Under threat of imminent siege and possibly disappearing into the black-hole of Israeli detention, staff are abandoning the hospital. And nobody can blame them. The international organizations have mostly pulled out. This is an utterly nightmarish, dystopian, _completely avoidable_ situation. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3229 "2024-01-07T23:28:24Z")
…more on the hospital situation in the north: > [@](#): > > oday, > > [@WHO](https://twitter.com/WHO) > > cancelled a planned mission to Al-Awda hospital and the central drug store in northern [#Gaza](https://twitter.com/hashtag/Gaza?src=hashtag_click) for the fourth time since 26 Dec because we did not receive deconfliction and safety guarantees. The mission planned to move urgently needed medical supplies to sustain the operations of five hospitals in the north, including Al-Awda. It has now been 12 days since we were last able to reach northern Gaza. > > Heavy bombardment, movement restrictions, and interrupted communications are making it nearly impossible to deliver medical supplies regularly and safely across Gaza, particularly in the north. Most hospitals are severely short-staffed, as health workers have left due to evacuation orders or insecurity. Meanwhile, patients’ access to health facilities is impeded by perilous conditions. > > Without adequate health care, the suffering in Gaza is growing each hour. > ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3230 "2024-01-11T13:45:20Z")
Not often that my government gets something right nowadays, but they’re certainly getting it right at the ICJ today. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3231 "2024-01-11T14:26:54Z")
“A fourth lesson centers on Netanyahu himself. He is continuing to play politics, [postponing](https://apnews.com/article/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-war-political-campaign-f40539425a1d6b6928a99a9d2e6d977c) any investigation into who’s to blame for the security failures of Oct. 7, while he tries to wear the mantle of a heroic wartime Prime Minister. Israeli columnists [highlighted](https://www.news-israel.net/2024/01/07/%D7%91%D7%9E%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9C-%D7%94%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%99-%D7%9E%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9B%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%A0%D7%AA%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95-%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9A-%D7%90/) the CIA’s conclusion that he is prolonging the war for his own selfish interests, to remain in power as corruption charges continue to play out at a snail’s pace in court. To maintain his coalition, he keeps bending to the will of extreme rightwing cabinet ministers who are intent on retaining the West Bank forever—and now talk about taking over the Gaza Strip and [expelling the 2.2 million Palestinians](https://theconversation.com/israeli-government-riven-with-division-over-future-of-gaza-after-far-right-calls-to-expel-palestinians-220602) who live there.” That about sums it up. [Link](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-s-bitter-lessons-from-the-hamas-war-three-months-in/ar-AA1mO3vS?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=bebf850adb9f48ed9a9ce8e51bdb3e5d&ei=52) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3232 "2024-01-13T20:07:57Z")
Solitary confinement for (Jewish) Israeli citizen critical of the war. Tell me more about how the hardliners are just outliers and the Israeli military isn’t run by them… > **[‘It is a time of witch hunts in Israel’: teacher held in solitary confinement...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/13/it-is-a-time-of-witch-hunts-in-israel-teacher-held-in-solitary-confinement-for-posting-concern-about-gaza-deaths)** > > Meir Baruchin, who was fired and jailed for criticising the military, says that many who agree with him are afraid to go public ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3233 "2024-01-13T22:41:37Z")
It is notable that this citizen was charged with treason and arrested by the regular police, rather than disappeared by the secret police and [held without trial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_detention#Israel). That supports his claim that his case was meant to send a public message not to rock the boat. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3234 "2024-01-13T23:56:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Solitary confinement for (Jewish) Israeli citizen critical of the war. Tell me more about how the hardliners are just outliers and the Israeli military isn’t run by them… I’m not really sure what the fact that he was fired (by a school - he is a teacher) or the fact that he was arrested (by civilian police) has to do with the people who run the military. Neither school boards nor metropolitan police departments are fighting in Gaza. But that aside, you ask why I have faith in Israel? Because we are a country that (despite Netanyahu’s best efforts) operates by rule of law, and in fact the court system has been quite favorable to this guy, even recommending that he be reinstated at his school job. > **[ביהמ"ש בביקורת על פיטורי מורה בגלל פוסטים בפייסבוק: "הליך רצוף כשלים"](https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/law/2023-12-29/ty-article/.premium/0000018c-b1f5-d014-a3cd-bbff73900000)** > > הארץ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=154) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=156)