# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 170
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3515 "2024-02-12T13:26:21Z")
Whether Mosques and hospitals are legitimate targets in war is _utterly irrelevant_ to the question of **whether or not Hamas maximises civilian casualties.** You ever been to Israel? You can’t throw a stone in any direction without hitting a bomb shelter. _That’s_ what it looks like to live in a country with a hostile neighbour under a government that _actually cares about its citizens_. In Gaza, you’ve got tunnels aplenty. Tunnels with electricity, and supplies, and air-conditioning that stretch longer than the London Underground, according to some. Hamas is never short of money for tunnels. So why, _if_ Hamas _do_ care about their citizens, have they never ploughed a little of that tunnel money into doing the one thing that would be absolutely guaranteed to reduce their own civilian casualties and build some bomb shelters? The answer is simple: _They don’t care_. Their citizens are more use to them dead than alive. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3516 "2024-02-12T13:27:24Z")
Neither I, nor anyone else in this thread is arguing that Hamas doesn’t do horrible things, and we all agree that Hamas doesn’t actually have the best interests of the Palestinians in Gaza in mind. Conceding that, and conceding that Israel has both the right and the duty to defend itself and the Israeli people from future terrorist attacks does not mean that Israel is now free to act without criticism in its war in Gaza. Let me quote you from earlier in this thread: “That’s because Hamas understands that their best weapon against Israel is photos of their own dead kids.” If you believe this is true, than isn’t Israel being foolish to hand Hamas their best weapon? You should be leading the criticism of the IDF for making such an obvious blunder. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3517 "2024-02-12T13:29:24Z")
There are currently [650, 000 refugees](https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrihG_MFcplHEUFt2VXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzIEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Nj/RV=2/RE=1708952269/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.abc.net.au%2fnews%2f2023-11-08%2frefugee-camps-in-the-gaza-strip-why-are-they-being-targeted%2f103048034%23%3a~%3atext%3dUNRWA%2520says%2520it%2520has%252013%252C000%2520staff%2520working%2520within%2c620%252C331%2520Palestinian%2520refugees%2520registered%2520across%2520all%2520eight%2520camps./RK=2/RS=Et2PRoztm_gpBYxQ1iN3I6qX5x8-) in Gaza. There are currently 700,000 illegal squatters in the west bank settlements. It’s a match! Remove the illegals and resettle the Gazans. Good first step for a two state solution. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3518 "2024-02-12T13:48:33Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > Whether Mosques and hospitals are legitimate targets in war is _utterly irrelevant_ to the question of **whether or not Hamas maximises civilian casualties.** …do you know what would be relevant here? Any evidence that Hamas had intentionally maximised civilian casualties. And you don’t have any. “Not attempting to build bomb shelters” which would have been destroyed in an instant if discovered _is not evidence of that._ > [@WalterBishop](#): > > You can’t throw a stone in any direction without hitting a bomb shelter. Have you seen the difference between how Palestinians were treated and how Palestinians lived compared to how Israeli’s lived before October 7th? Palestinians are treated like second class citizens. Surveillance state. Every Palestinian has a story about how either they have been detained and beaten by IDF forces or their family have been detained and beaten. Fishing boats can’t go out too far or they get sunk. Aid was already at a trickle through the border crossing even before the start of the siege. The “number of bomb shelters” is not a metric of “how much a government cares about its citizens.” It’s a measure of how much that government oppressed the Palestinians, how they subjected them, humiliated them, tortured them, killed them, starved them, and how much they feared a reprisal because they understood _exactly what they were doing to them_. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > n Gaza, you’ve got tunnels aplenty. Tunnels with electricity, and supplies, and air-conditioning that stretch longer than the London Underground, according to some. Hamas is never short of money for tunnels. Well no. This is what Israel _claims_ exists. And to a degree, some of that is based on Hamas “puffery”. But like almost everything that we’ve heard, it isn’t a claim that appears to match the reality on the ground. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > So why, _if_ Hamas _do_ care about their citizens, have they never ploughed a little of that tunnel money into doing the one thing that would be absolutely guaranteed to reduce their own civilian casualties and build some bomb shelters? Because it wasn’t an “absolute guarantee.” Because Israel would never have allowed any shelters to be built. Because I think the claims of how much “tunnel money” there was is almost certainly an exaggeration. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > The answer is simple: _They don’t care_. This isn’t the answer. I’ve given you the answer. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > Their citizens are more use to them dead than alive. More accurately: the Israeli leadership consider Palestinians are more use to them dead than alive. Which is why they are killing so many of them, and why they have shut down the healthcare system, and are blocking so much food and essential aid from crossing over the border. It’s why, as documented in the South African submission to the International Court of Justice, they so casually and so explicitly made genocidal statements. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3519 "2024-02-12T13:51:19Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …do you know what would be relevant here? > > Any evidence that Hamas had intentionally maximised civilian casualties. > > And you don’t have any. “Not attempting to build bomb shelters” which would have been destroyed in an instant if discovered _is not evidence of that._ Hamas planned 10/7 for two years. They knew for a fact that Israel would bomb in retaliation. They didn’t build a single bomb shelter in these two years. That’s criminal negligence. It’s also clear evidence that Hamas want their death toll to be high. If _you_ were Hamas, would _you_ have built bomb shelters? Yes or no. Please explain your answer. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3520 "2024-02-12T13:52:40Z")
deleted ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3521 "2024-02-12T14:02:15Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > Hamas planned 10/7 for two years. They knew for a fact that Israel would bomb in retaliation. They didn’t build a single bomb shelter in these two years. That’s criminal negligence. It’s also clear evidence that Hamas want their death toll to be high. > > If _you_ were Hamas, would _you_ have built bomb shelters? Yes or no. Please explain your answer. …if I were Hamas _I wouldn’t have done October 7th_. And if I were the Israeli government I would withdraw all the settlers, release every Palestinian prisoner detained without charge, immediately ban any use of beatings, humiliation and torture by my soldiers and police, and start a truth and reconciliation commission to address decades of criminal behaviour towards the Palestinian people. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > No shit. That’s what happens when your government employs suicide bombers against its neighbours. Trust tends to suffer. Lets not forget the Nakba, Deir Yassin, Abu Shusha, Tantura, Lydda and Ramle, Saliha, al-Dawayima, Qibya, and countless other massacres. It didn’t start with suicide bombings, (which, I want to make clear, I do not defend.) just like this didn’t start on October 7th. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3522 "2024-02-12T16:49:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > 2 hostages rescued during operations in Rafah. That is good news, but I don’t know that publicizing it was a great idea. What happens to the rest of the hostages if Hamas gets the idea that their use as leverage is slipping away? ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3523 "2024-02-12T17:18:16Z")
I’d exchange them for something valuable before the opportunity was lost. Presumably, Hamas is going to know they were rescued regardless of whether it’s publicized or not. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3524 "2024-02-14T22:57:13Z")
…more warcrimes committed by the IDF as they move to shut down Nasser Hospital. > [@The Intercept](#): > > It was not long after this that the young man in the white PPE arrived. The young man was Jamal Abu Al-Ola, according to El Helou. He had been at the hospital earlier, but the Israeli military had subsequently seized and detained him, and put his hands in what appears to be black, plastic zip-tie cuffs. > > “He said that he was subjected to beatings and humiliation and abuse by the soldiers,” El Helou recounted. > > After Abu Al-Ola passed along the evacuation order, his mother, who was also sheltering at the hospital, pleaded with him to not go back out, but her son said he had to. El Helou said, “He said, ‘I’ve been threatened, I have to leave the hospital or it’s going to put all the civilians in danger.’” > > He walked back out the door. In a [videoOpens in a new tab](https://www.instagram.com/p/C3SXOjXNUFA/) filmed by Mohammad Salama, the only other journalist in the hospital aside from El Helou, Abu Al-Ola can be seen walking away with a crowd of people around before they trail away and he walks in his own direction. > > Abu Al-Ola was killed shortly after walking out of the hospital. According to El Helou, he was shot by an Israeli soldier three times in his chest and abdomen while still inside the gates of the hospital. Al Serr, the Nasser Hospital doctor, confirmed the account of Abu Al-Ola being killed as he left the hospital. El Helou later got footage of Abu Al-Ola’s corpse in a body bag, still robed in his PPE. > **[IDF Sent in Handcuffed Prisoner to Evacuate Hospital, Then Killed Him When He...](https://theintercept.com/2024/02/14/gaza-nasser-hospital-evacuation-israel-prisoner/?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=theintercept&utm_medium=social)** > > Israel sent a handcuffed Palestinian prisoner into Gaza’s Nasser Hospital to order an evacuation, then killed him when he left. I watched this play out in real-time. Unreal. Watching this guy alive one minute, talking to people, and in a body-bag the next. Over the last couple of days, the siege of Nasser Hospital have come to its inevitable close. After shutting down Al Shifa, Nasser Hospital had become the largest (relatively) functional hospital in Gaza. It also provided refuge for over 10,000 people. A few days ago all missions from WHO to resupply the hospital were denied by the IDF. Today from Dr. Mahmoud Shammala at Nasser Hospital: > [@](#): > > “The Israeli army has ordered all displaced and sick people to leave the hospital, the hospital is almost empty. > Everyone bids farewell to their family and friends, many medical staff have left as well. > Only I and a few other medical staff are staying, we are now left with a small number of staff at the hospital. > All patients were completely discharged except for those who were unable to walk or were on oxygen. > The situation is very dangerous and the hospital is surrounded from all corners by tanks, bulldozers and quadcopters everywhere. > We are now facing the unknown and these may be the last moments during this genocide of extermination against Nasser Hospital. > We do not know where our destiny is and where we will go. > The hospital has now completely collapsed and will be stormed by the Israeli army within hours. > I love you all and appreciate your support.” > From Doctors without Borders: > [@](#): > > On 13 February, an Israeli military bulldozer destroyed the north gate of the hospital grounds and ordered displaced people to leave through it. Medical staff and patients were told they may remain in the hospital with a limit of one caretaker per patient. MSF staff are still in the building and continue to treat patients amid near impossible conditions. > > Following weeks of heavy fighting near Nasser hospital, medical staff, patients and displaced people have found themselves trapped inside the compound with very little access to essential supplies. Many people who were wounded by the intense bombing in Khan Younis were unable to reach the hospital for emergency care. > > According to information available to MSF teams, in the past days, at least five people have been killed and 10 others wounded after shots were fired directly at the hospital. > **[Displaced people forced to evacuate have nowhere to go in Gaza | MSF](https://www.msf.org/displaced-people-forced-evacuate-have-nowhere-go-gaza)** > > Israeli Forces have issued an evacuation order to thousands of displaced people sheltering inside Nasser hospital, Gaza, Palestine, leaving them with nowhere to go. And the fall of Nasser signifies the next phase of the war. There is effectively no healthcare system in Gaza any more. The hospitals in Rafah are People in Rafah are starting to leave and risk getting shot by snipers and drones by heading north into the dystopian landscape. Several more targeted strikes on reporters as they were working or driving around Gaza. Credible reports from the Sinai Foundation for Human Rights that Egypt are rapidly constructing a security buffer zone surrounded by walls in the event of a mass exodus from Gaza. (link provided to Twitter, need to click-through for a translation) I suspect the major assault on Rafah will be held off until construction here is near-complete. > ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3525 "2024-02-15T01:59:44Z")
…more on the war on hospitals. Breaking, via Nora Barrows-Friedman, The Electronic Intifada. > [@](#): > > Israel has just bombed the patient ward inside Nasser hospital in Khan Younis just after 2am local time. At least 1 dead, and 6 wounded; all patients who were already victims of Israeli aggression. This is video I received from a doc inside the hospital in the aftermath > ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3526 "2024-02-15T02:08:02Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …more on the war on hospitals. …more from inside the hospital. > The IDF raid will be soon. It will follow the pattern of all of the other hospitals. Many of the patients won’t recieve care, food or water. Medical staff will be detained and disappear. After a few weeks, the IDF will damage the hospital just enough so that it will be impossible to ever bring it back to full strength. Then they will abandon the hospital. “World’s most moral army.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3527 "2024-02-17T18:43:29Z")
Hamas might want to reconsider using hospitals for their war efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3528 "2024-02-17T23:56:49Z")
…Hamas _haven’t_ been using hospitals for their war efforts. Israel have shut down 24 hospitals so far and haven’t shown that _any_ of those hospitals have been used in a manner that would allow them to be targeted. Not in the opinion of any reputable expert in international law. These are war crimes at an _industrial_ scale. And even _if_ Hamas were using hospitals for their war efforts, Israel has a responsibility as both the occupying power _and_ because its supposed to have “the most moral army in the world” and as the “only democracy in the Middle East” to do _much better than this_. It’s completely _unconscionable_ to completely obliterate the entire healthcare system for _2.2 million people_. Cancer patients will just die now. Mothers will give birth on the streets. The hospitals are just a microcosm of the utter depravity of Israel’s response to the Hamas war crimes of October 7th. The deliberate, collective punishment of the Palestinian people. People are actually dying of starvation now. This will only get worse. Famine, disease and infection will kill more Palestinians that have been killed by bombs. And nobody in this thread can argue that they weren’t warned that this was coming. This was the inevitable result of the siege. It was always going to happen. It was never a secret. Israeli leadership were clear of their intentions right from the start. With Egypt rapidly constructing a buffer zone and the assault on Rafah looming, with 70% of homes destroyed, schools, Mosques, universities, government buildings, historic sites all flattened, the healthcare system obliterated, and 1.5 million people squeezed into an area only 25 square miles wide, this “war” is being waged quite unambiguously by Israel with _genocidal intent_. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3529 "2024-02-17T23:59:46Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Hamas _haven’t_ been using hospitals for their war efforts. Uh huh. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3530 "2024-02-18T00:07:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Uh huh. …I’ve been documenting what’s been happening at the hospitals here in this thread for _months_. That includes posting and sharing statements from Israel on why they have targeted each hospital, and _rebuttals_ of that evidence from independent humanitarian agencies and media organizations like the New York Times and the Washington Post. I’m entirely confident in my statement. Feel free to review my arguments and the relevant citations that I’ve posted throughout this thread, I’m not going to repeat myself. “Uh huh” isn’t a rebuttal. And as I said: even if Hamas _were_ using hospitals for their war effort, Israel have obligations under the Geneva Conventions, International Humanitarian Law, as the occupying power, and for the _sake of humanity_ to not obliterate the healthcare system for 2.2 million people. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3531 "2024-02-18T00:17:35Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I’ve been documenting what’s been happening at the hospitals here in this thread for _months_. You haven’t documented jack shit about Hamas > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > “Uh huh” isn’t a rebuttal. It’s a reflection of your viewpoint regarding the war. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3532 "2024-02-18T00:33:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You haven’t documented jack shit about Hamas. …I said “I’ve been documenting what’s been happening at the hospitals here in this thread for _months_.” There isn’t much to document about how Hamas have been “using hospitals for their war efforts” for one simple reason: _they haven’t been_. Because they are _hospitals_. They were being used before October 7th to do all of the things that hospitals do. And after October 7th they still had to do everything that hospitals do…as well as deal with thousands of people being bombed. The idea that Hamas have been using hospitals for their war efforts is a propagandist one, not an evidence based one. It’s a talking point, repeated over and over again until many people simply believe it to be true. But if you are going to be shutting down an entire healthcare system, then you need better evidence than a couple of videos filmed on October 7th, a few random empty tunnels, a handful of weapons with no chain of custody. This isn’t evidence hospitals were being used by Hamas for the war effort. It certainly isn’t evidence that the healthcare system needed to be shut down. > [@Magiver](#): > > It’s a reflection of your viewpoint regarding the war. My viewpoint regarding the war was that for the first few weeks I made a deliberate decision not to say anything. Because there are real people on these boards who didn’t need to hear what I had to say. I imagined that Israel were going to respond proportionately. That it would target Hamas. “Israel has a right to defend itself” I said to myself. But that wasn’t what they did. And that isn’t what this is. This isn’t self-defence. They are destroying Gaza and making it impossible for Palestinians to live there any more. Its ethnic cleansing. Its an attempted genocide. And I’m not going to be silent about that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3533 "2024-02-18T00:49:17Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I imagined that Israel were going to respond proportionately. That it would target Hamas. “Israel has a right to defend itself” I said to myself. How does that work fighting a gorilla war? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3534 "2024-02-18T00:57:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How does that work fighting a gorilla war? … Israel aren’t fighting a guerilla war. The very first thing they did was order everyone in the north of Gaza to leave in 24 hours. They’ve been driving people to the south, using bombs, controlled demolition and bulldozers to clear houses, roads, apartment blocks, civilian infrastructure. Its _ethnic cleansing_. Not guerilla warfare. It’s been that from the start. It’s never been about Hamas. Israel don’t even know how many Hamas people they have killed. Ant it isn’t about the hostages. Israel doesn’t give a damn about the hostages. Israel have literally killed more of the hostages than they’ve rescued. They are driving people to the south, destroying much of everything on its way. The intent couldn’t be more clear here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=169) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=171)