# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 174
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3595 "2024-02-19T12:15:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s a position far outside the mainstream of modern thought, but there it is. Seems to me that it’s what Israel is _doing._ Seems to me that it’s what the United States is, with a shrug, _allowing._ Seems to me that mainstream modern thought on the matter might be that what’s happening is, as it happens, appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3596 "2024-02-19T12:21:27Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > The sentence is: “But it changes the way wars will be waged against Israel and US aligned countries in the future.” You’re talking about how wars _will_ be waged against Israel and US aligned countries, and saying it’ll _change._ But if it’s not a change from how war _was_ waged on 10/7, then the sentence strikes me as false. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And if **Israel and the United States** have declared that warcrimes don’t mean anything, and that they can conduct wars anyway they want, that probably won’t matter much more in _this_ conflict. But it changes the way wars will be waged against Israel and US aligned countries in the future. …I don’t know what else you want me to say. That sentence _doesn’t stand on its own_. Why do you think I included the word “but?” Because its connected to the first sentence. I won’t engage you any further on this. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > give me a definition of ‘genocide’ and I’ll tell you whether I believe it fits that definition. I’ll refer you as well to the submission by South Africa to the International Court of Justice, along with the interim decision made by the ICJ. The 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide is detailed at length, along with how Israel have response has breached the convention, point by point. It is 84 pages long, so it might take you a while to read. But it isn’t short of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3597 "2024-02-19T12:29:25Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I don’t know what else you want me to say. That sentence _doesn’t stand on its own_. Why do you think I included the word “but?” Because its connected to the first sentence. The connection to a prior sentence is the assertion that “it” changes the way that wars will be waged in the future. If there’s no such change, then the ‘it’ is as irrelevant as the ‘but’; if there’s no such change, then the sentence is false regardless of what you were referring to beforehand. > [@](#): > > I’ll refer you as well to the submission by South Africa to the International Court of Justice, along with the interim decision made by the ICJ. Uh, okay; I’ll go take a look, and let you know. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3598 "2024-02-19T12:39:05Z")
Maybe I’m missing something, but, as far as I can tell, the definition they’re using is this one: > [@](#): > > genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: > (a) Killing members of the group; > (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; > (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; > (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. And it seems to me that Israel of course has the intent to destroy, in whole or in part — namely, _in part_ — such a group, by killing members of that group. If that’s the definition, then, sure, I’m okay with saying it applies here; it seems pretty obvious that they’re killing members of that group, with the intent to destroy “in part” that group, and I approve. What a strange definition. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3599 "2024-02-19T12:43:37Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > with the intent to destroy “in part” that group, and I approve. …are you talking about Hamas, or Palestinians? Which group of people do you approve of destroying? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3600 "2024-02-19T12:57:25Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …are you talking about Hamas, or Palestinians? Which group of people do you approve of destroying? As far as I can tell, Israel is out to destroy Hamas in whole or in part, and knows that their efforts to do so (a) have been destroying Palestinians in whole or in part, and (b) will destroy Palestinians in whole or in part — and I approve — and, with each day that the _destruction-in-whole-or-in-part_ continues, I find myself asking, hey, wait a minute: is this “in part” destruction really outside the mainstream of modern thought? Because it sure seems like it’s being done with thought, and being met with shrugs. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3601 "2024-02-19T13:09:59Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Because it sure seems like it’s being done with thought, and being met with shrugs. Certainly there are some people who are okay with genocide in the world; but there’s also growing international sentiment against Israel’s actions. That international sentiment has yet to translate into concrete action taken against the Israeli government, but I believe, and hope, that such action takes place, in terms of withholding military aid to Israel, imposing economic sanctions, and the like. Those who accept genocide must be ostracized from the international community. Obviously that’s not something I can do here, but I’ll support politicians and policies that engage in such ostracism. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3602 "2024-02-19T13:14:24Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > As far as I can tell, Israel is out to destroy Hamas in whole or in part, and knows that their efforts to do so (a) have been destroying Palestinians in whole or in part, and (b) will destroy Palestinians in whole or in part — and I approve — and, with each day that the _destruction-in-whole-or-in-part_ continues, I find myself asking, hey, wait a minute: is this “in part” destruction really outside the mainstream of modern thought? Because it sure seems like it’s being done with thought, and being met with shrugs. …I’m sorry, I’m finding this really hard to parse. But it looks like you are saying that yes, you approve of “destroying Palestinians” to serve a message that “terrorism is bad” and as a response to October the 7th. Is that a fair reading? Or do you want to clarify what you said? And bringing it back to what you consider a “strange definition.” Considering the submission is concerned with Palestinians broadly and not specifically Hamas, do you approve of “deliberately inflicting on Palestinians conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part of Palestinians living in Gaza?” Do you approve of “imposing measures on Palestinians intended to prevent births within that group?” Because miscarriages are up 300% in Gaza. > **[The War in Gaza Is Decimating Maternal and Infant Health](https://www.thecut.com/article/gaza-maternal-infant-health.html)** > > Rondi Anderson, a midwife who advises the aid group Project Hope, explains how four months of crisis have affected pregnant women and newborns. > [@The Cut](#): > > Since Israel’s campaign against Hamas began last year, health-care workers have reported that [miscarriages in Gaza](https://jezebel.com/miscarriages-in-gaza-have-increased-300-under-israeli-1851168680) have increased around 300 percent, according to the humanitarian aid group CARE. > > … > > Since 21 of Gaza’s 36 hospitals [have shut down](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-hospitals-collapsing-rcna132439), and those remaining are overwhelmed treating mass casualties, many women giving birth must do so outside of medical facilities. That article, written on Feb the 8th, is already out of date, by the way. Its 24 hospitals that have shut down now. There is much more at the link. Is this the sort of thing you approve of? Because this is all part of the submission to the court. Its why South Africa argued that this is a genocide, and why the court issued interim measures. Or if you would like to clarify, please go ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3603 "2024-02-19T13:14:33Z")
If the goal of Netanyahu (and Likud?) is to destroy Hamas, why did they give them financial support for so long? I was going to post a link, but it seems @iiandyiiii brought it up earlier in this thread. > [@Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3175): > > According to this from the Times of Israel they were: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) Yes they do. Netanyahu and his right-wing allies similarly should be removed from power. They are also enemies of peace in the region. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3604 "2024-02-19T13:22:42Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I’m sorry, I’m finding this really hard to parse. > > But it looks like you are saying that yes, you approve of “destroying Palestinians” to serve a message that “terrorism is bad” and as a response to October the 7th. > > Is that a fair reading? Or do you want to clarify what you said? > > And bringing it back to what you consider a “strange definition.” Considering the submission is concerned with Palestinians broadly and not specifically Hamas, do you approve of “deliberately inflicting on Palestinians conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part of Palestinians living in Gaza?” It doesn’t seem that you’re finding it at all hard to parse; yes, I approve of deliberately inflicting, on Palestinians, conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part — specifically, “in part” — sure as that’s what Israel is clearly doing. They don’t seem to mind, and neither do I. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3605 "2024-02-19T13:24:43Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > It doesn’t seem that you’re finding it at all hard to parse; yes, I approve of deliberately inflicting, on Palestinians, conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part — specifically, “in part” — sure as that’s what Israel is clearly doing. …so you _approve_ of the genocide of Palestinians in Gaza. Which is what that definition says. I want to be crystal clear here: is this your position? I don’t want to get it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3606 "2024-02-19T13:32:20Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …so you _approve_ of the genocide of Palestinians in Gaza. Which is what that definition says. I want to be crystal clear here: is this your position? I don’t want to get it wrong I don’t want you to get it wrong either, but I don’t know how much clearer I can make this: (a) by the definition provided, ‘genocide’ means killing members of such a group with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, such a group; (b) Israel has, as far as I can tell, decided to do that; (c) I’ve decided that I approve of it; which part of that wasn’t crystal clear to you before this post, a or b or c? ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3607 "2024-02-19T14:29:57Z")
Putting aside that they are your team, and I am not asking you to change your aliegence, is there no line Israel could cross that you would say is too much? Like, just for discussions sake, say the IDF did start lining up civilians and gunning them down in mass graves. Follow up question: if Israel did cross some line and the rest of the region with US backing said screw it, you’re done, the Netanyahu government needs to be eliminated would any Israeli civilians killed in such a conflict just be unfortunate? Not saying you would have to like it or support such an effort, but that would be fair play as long as the rest of the world was cool with it? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3608 "2024-02-19T14:37:19Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > which part of that wasn’t crystal clear to you before this post, a or b or c? …the part where I don’t think I’ve ever spoken to anyone who approves of the genocide of a group of people before. But I suppose there is a first time for everything. So that’s a thing, I suppose. You both _agree_ that this is a genocide of the Palestinian people, and you _approve_ of the genocide of the Palestinian people. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3609 "2024-02-19T14:47:54Z")
…from the latest flash report: an update on one of the other hospitals currently under siege: Al Amal Hospital in Khan Younis. > [@](#): > > - The situation in Al Amal Hospital in Khan Younis continues to be critical, following a 28-day siege by the Israeli military. On 19 February, PRCS [reported](https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1759489970178338896) a decrease in fuel reserves to generate electricity for high-risk patients and a near exhaustion of food supplies. On 18 February, PRCS [reported](https://x.com/PalestineRCS/status/1759115199854850395?s=20) that the third floor of the hospital sustained damage by artillery shelling and the destruction of the central maintenance room. On 17 February, PRCS [published](https://x.com/PalestineRCS/status/1758853332926353605?s=20) images showing signs of what they assess to be torture of two doctors who had been detained from Al Amal hospital by Israeli forces on 9 February. Twelve PRCS staff members continue to be [detained](https://x.com/PalestineRCS/status/1758428788541587659?s=20) by Israeli forces, according to PRCS. Notwithstanding the lack of blood units and medical personnel, the medical team successfully [performed](https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1758514046448406614?s=20) an urgent cesarian section for a pregnant woman at Al Amal hospital on 16 February. And on the general health situation: > [@](#): > > - Public health concerns are reportedly mounting across Gaza, disproportionately affecting women. This is due to continued bombardment, the lack of essential food and water supplies, the collapsing health system, and limited access to those in need of urgent assistance. On 16 February, the UN Population Fund ([UNFPA](https://www.unfpa.org/stories/grief-and-fear-mount-rafah-people-are-trapped-nowhere-safe-go)) highlighted that 500,000 cases of communicable disease, including meningitis and acute diarrhoea, have been reported across Gaza, emphasizing the particular vulnerabilities facing women: “Everyone in Gaza is hungry, including 50,000 pregnant women, with malnutrition making them more susceptible to disease and less able to recover.” Underscoring the immense risks facing pregnant women in Gaza, UNFPA [warned](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/02/1146632): “If the bombs don’t kill pregnant women, if disease, hunger and dehydration don’t catch up with them, simply giving birth could.” More from the report: > [@](#): > > As of 17 February, up to 1.7 million people have been displaced across the Gaza Strip, many multiple times, according to [UNRWA](https://www.unrwa.org/resources/reports/unrwa-situation-report-79-situation-gaza-strip-and-west-bank-including-east-Jerusalem). > > … > > UNRWA estimates that at least 396 IDPs sheltering in its shelters have been killed and at least 1,383 injured since 7 October and 158 UNRWA staff members killed during this period. On the West Bank: > [@](#): > > - Since 7 October 2023 and as of 18 February, 393 Palestinians have been killed, including 100 children, and 4,511 Palestinians, including 699 children, have been injured in conflict-related incidents across the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Israel. During the same period, 12 Israelis, including four members of Israeli forces, were killed and 80 injured in conflict-related incidents in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Israel. > - Since 7 October 2023 and as of 16 February, OCHA has recorded 558 Israeli settler attacks against Palestinians that resulted in Palestinian casualties (50 incidents), damage to Palestinian-owned property (447 incidents), or both casualties and damage to property (61 incidents). > > … > > - On 13 February, four Palestinian houses were rendered uninhabitable by Israeli bulldozers during a raid on Jenin refugee camp. Some 16 Palestinians were displaced, including three children. Roads inside the camp were also bulldozed, causing significant damage to sewage networks. Since 7 October 2023, 830 Palestinians, including 337 children, have been displaced, following the destruction of 131 homes during operations carried out by Israeli forces across the West Bank. About 95 per cent of the displacement was reported in the refugee camps of Jenin, Nur Shams and Tulkarm. More at the link. > **[United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied...](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-121)** > > Intense Israeli bombardment from air, land and sea continues to be reported across much of the Gaza Strip, resulting in further civilian casualties, displacement, and destruction of civilian infrastructure. Widespread ground operations and heavy... ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3610 "2024-02-19T15:07:08Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > I am not asking you to change your aliegence, is there no line Israel could cross that you would say is too much? Like, just for discussions sake, say the IDF did start lining up civilians and gunning them down in mass graves. > > Follow up question: if Israel did cross some line and the rest of the region with US backing said screw it, you’re done, the Netanyahu government needs to be eliminated would any Israeli civilians killed in such a conflict just be unfortunate? Not saying you would have to like it or support such an effort, but that would be fair play as long as the rest of the world was cool with it? This entire side discussion strikes me as downright odd; you’re asking, with an “if”, about a hypothetical situation where someone decides _screw it, you’re done, and Israeli civilians will be killed in such a conflict_ — which is a lot like a hypothetical situation where someone decides the opposite — only we’re in the _actual_ situation where Hamas already decided Screw It You’re Done Israeli Citizens Will Be Killed. We’re already living in the world where Hamas crossed the line of gunning down civilians en masse and “the rest of the region with US backing” then _didn’t_ say That Was Too Much And Screw It You’re Done to, as it were, Hamas. You want me to mull, for discussion’s sake, whether a hypothetical would involve fair play, while the important question seems to me to be whether Israel has decided to okay this _actual_ response to that _actual_ attack, and whether I okay it likewise? Well, I guess I’d advise Israel not to cross a line that would prompt a Screw It You’re Done response that wouldn’t be in Israel’s best interests, if we’re in that hypothetical — and to do what they’re doing, if we’re in the hypothetical where (a) it wouldn’t draw such a response, and (b) they believe it’s in their best interests — and I guess I’d advise the US to let Israel know key facts about where that hypothetical line is, and I guess I’d advise Israel to let the next would-be 10/7-type attacker know what to expect in response to a 10/7-type attack, so everyone can draw useful conclusions about their own best interests. At which point, fair play isn’t the point; interest is the point. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3611 "2024-02-19T15:25:58Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …the part where I don’t think I’ve ever spoken to anyone who approves of the genocide of a group of people before. Possibly you should explain to them, slowly and patiently, that you’re going to ask if they approve of killing members of such a group to destroy such a group _in whole or in part._ Then ask them whether they approve of killing members of such a group to destroy that group _in whole_ — no? Well, okay, thanks; and now, to continue on to the thrilling conclusion — _“in part?”_ Maybe you’ll find that, say, half of the people you’re speaking with will happen to approve; sure, maybe it’ll only be three out of ten, but maybe it’ll be seven; or, granted, maybe zero or one, but maybe nine or ten? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3612 "2024-02-19T16:17:49Z")
I am thankful that on this board, you appear to be alone in this advocacy of genocide. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3613 "2024-02-19T16:29:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I am thankful that on this board, you appear to be alone in this advocacy of genocide Israel seems to be okay with what Israel is doing. I’m likewise okay with what Israel is doing. I’ve seen polling where, yes, some Americans say Israel has gone too far, but other Americans put it at _“about right”_ and yet others at _“not gone far enough.”_ Time will tell, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3614 "2024-02-19T17:33:16Z")
Your confusion is fair, it made more sense in my head. Let me try this. At the moment, Israel is making a much larger military response than the original 10/7 attack. Also, while Hamas is definitely a problem Israel needs to eliminate, it is extremely unlikely that Hamas, or even all Palestinians, could inflict the level of military damage that Israel can upon Gaza. And so yes, at a very basic level Israel can do what it wants in Gaza unless a larger nation or coalition of nations steps in. And you support Israel’s response, and find any claims of genocide or pleas to international courts to be meaningless. So my question is let’s suppose that a US led coalition did decide that the Netanyahu government had gone too far, and the bombing on started tonight. Just for fun, let’s also say that the US had a way of over riding the Iron Dome, and so within a few days there were 50,000 dead Israeli civilians. I am assuming you would still support Israel, but would you view those bombings as a genocidal attack? And if the International court said it was genocide would you consider that a positive thing for Israel or just meaningless blather? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=173) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=175)