# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 194
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2024, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3996 "2024-04-03T10:09:31Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > they are desperately calling for a field hospital to be set up of at least 180 bed capacity Based on how the war has gone so far as soon as they do that the IDF will destroy it, claiming it’s a Hamas base of operations. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2024, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3997 "2024-04-03T20:25:09Z")
I have it on good authority that those children must all have been child soldiers… ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3998 "2024-04-03T21:24:49Z")
…a few months ago we talked about the AI targeting system used by the IDF called “the Gospel.” The Gospel targeted buildings. In a report broken today by 972 Magazine, we learn about another AI targeting system called “Lavender” which targets _people_. It basically generated a “kill-list”, that included an automated system called “Where’s Daddy” that “used specifically to track the targeted individuals and carry out bombings when they had entered their family’s residences.” > **[‘Lavender’: The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza](https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/)** > > The Israeli army has marked tens of thousands of Gazans as suspects for assassination, using an AI targeting system with little human oversight and a permissive policy for casualties, +972 and Local Call reveal. Its a harrowing, sobering read. It fits with the pattern of death and destruction that we have seen throughout the war, and it’s a harbinger of things to come, as we will increasingly see governments and police forces around the world adopting these technologies. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3999 "2024-04-03T23:12:08Z")
> [@](#): > > The Biden administration **has reached out to the United Nations** to help distribute aid from a U.S. military-built pier to desperate civilians in Gaza — but the arrangement might be in peril after an Israeli drone strike that killed seven aid workers in the enclave on Monday. [https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/03/biden-nato-aid-workers-strike-gaza-pier-00150384](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/03/biden-nato-aid-workers-strike-gaza-pier-00150384) …no matter what happens in the near future, its going to come down to UNRWA, the agency that the United States congress overwhelmingly voted to defund just weeks ago, to fix this mess that the US have contributed too. The attempt to circumvent them by using intermediaries and proxies has failed, and UNRWA are really the only humanitarian agency on the ground that has the networks, can still scale up, and is still operational. I’d be laughing if the whole thing wasn’t so damn depressing. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4000 "2024-04-04T09:08:55Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > In a report broken today by 972 Magazine, we learn about another AI targeting system called “Lavender” which targets _people_. _The Guardian_ had an article about this today as well. > **[‘The machine did it coldly’: Israel used AI to identify 37,000 Hamas targets](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes)** > > Israeli intelligence sources reveal use of ‘Lavender’ system in Gaza war and claim permission given to kill civilians in pursuit of low-ranking militants Standout line for me (which relates to _human_ choices, not the AI itself): > Two sources said that during the early weeks of the war they were permitted to kill 15 or 20 civilians during airstrikes on low-ranking militants. Yes. 20 innocent deaths to get one low Hamas flunky picked by a computer purely on stats data was perfectly acceptable to the IOF. Twenty-to-One. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4001 "2024-04-04T10:51:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yes. 20 innocent deaths to get one low Hamas flunky picked by a computer purely on stats data was perfectly acceptable to the IOF. Twenty-to-One. This from a machine that can’t distinguish between aid workers and combatants. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4002 "2024-04-04T10:55:21Z")
I don’t like the way in which you throw about the term genocide, lots of people can be killed without the prefix of that loaded term being thrown about, but I guess that’s why you’re using it in the first place. Your own yardstick of genocide would also apply to US strategic bombing of Japan in WWII ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4003 "2024-04-04T11:23:40Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I guess that’s why you’re using it in the first place. 🙄 Oh, this isn’t disingenuous _at all_, given the number of posts where BB has said exactly what makes this a genocide. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > our own yardstick of genocide would also apply to US strategic bombing of Japan in WWII Not genocide, but certainly a war crime, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4004 "2024-04-04T11:28:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Oh, this isn’t disingenuous _at all_, given the number of posts where BB has said exactly what makes this a genocide. Doesn’t make it any more true > [@MrDibble](#): > > Not geno No one disputes that Israel has committed war crimes in the West Bank or Gaza Strip, but it ain’t genocide. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4005 "2024-04-04T11:33:01Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Doesn’t make it any more true Well, it helps that the facts he’s cited numerous times support his case, too. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > No one disputes that Israel has committed war crimes in the West Bank or Gaza Strip Lots of people dispute this. In this very thread, some of them. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > it ain’t genocide. It am’t. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4006 "2024-04-04T11:41:47Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I don’t like the way in which you throw about the term genocide, …well what exactly do you want me to do about that? Its a word that I _didn’t_ use for much of this thread. The first time I remember using it, was in the context of how some Palestinians were describing what they said was happening to them, and I quoted some of them. And I was accused of blood libel. And the occasional person pitted me, and there was a big thread in ATMB about it, and I stopped using the word genocide in _any_ context, because being accused of blood libel was one of the most upsetting things that has ever happened on these boards. So what changed? The South African case that was presented to the International Court of Justice. I’ve linked to it before. I’ll link to it again. > **[South-Africa-v-Israel.pdf](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/South-Africa-v-Israel.pdf)** > > 1521.44 KB The evidence is all laid out there. You can read it for yourself. And in the months following the submission, Israel’s behaviour has gotten significantly worse. Gaza has been flattened. Out of 32 hospitals, only ten are partially functional right now, and only four of them can really be called “in service.” The IDF burned down the largest hospital in Gaza a few days ago. They did it just as they were leaving. The central laboratory…gone. The surgical unit…gone. Dialysis…gone. Doctors and medical staff murdered or disappeared. Elsewhere in Gaza the only cancer hospital got bulldozed. Nobody can access cancer care any more. There is only a single partially functional hospital in the north. Every university in Gaza has been demolished. Academics have been targeted and killed. Refaat Alareer got a phone call saying they knew what school he was sheltering in so he went to stay with his sister instead…and they bombed his sisters apartment, killing him. Deliberate, systematic, targeted killing. Over 130 Palestinian journalists have been killed in six months. 4 times as many as any other conflict since they started recording the numbers. Deliberate. Targeted. Mosques. Churches. Apartment buildings. Farmland. Razed. Bulldozed. Destroyed. Approximately 85% of infrastructure has been damaged or destroyed. There are 2.2 million people in Gaza. About 1.5 million of those people have been forced to move to Rafah and the surrounds. Those that are still in the north are trapped. Israel have been denying food aid to get through to the north and have targeted and killed people in crowds merely waiting for food. And now two of the biggest three humanitarian food aid agencies have suspended operations because the IDF can’t stop killing them. People are starving. Hundreds of thousands of people will die in Gaza over the next few months, either by bombing, or through famine, or through disease or infection because Israel aren’t even letting most medications through and there is almost no healthcare anyway even if they get sick. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Doesn’t make it any more true What part of the case I’ve made for genocide, not only in this post, but the posts that I’ve made in the last two months, do you dispute? Again, I’ll direct you to the South African submission to the International Court of Justice, page 59 titled “Expressions of Genocidal Intent against the Palestinian People by Israeli State Officials and Other.” They clearly stated what they were going to do. And _they are doing it._ I can 100% assure you that I’m not using the word genocide “because its a loaded term.” I intentionally did _not_ use the term because it was a loaded term until the evidence was so overwhelming it is now the most fitting and accurate term to use. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4007 "2024-04-04T12:36:20Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > Yes. 20 innocent deaths to get one low Hamas flunky picked by a computer purely on stats data was perfectly acceptable to the IOF. Twenty-to-One. > > This from a machine that can’t distinguish between aid workers and combatants. It is not completely clear to what extent aid workers are specifically being targeted and killed, but it is pretty open that “combatants” included, for example, anyone who had met someone who printed out a Hamas sticker once, and standard procedure for taking out combatants included blowing up the building they were in and/or dozens of innocent bystanders. One question: are there any procedures/evidence/arrest warrants against identified individuals who are known to have committed war crimes? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4008 "2024-04-04T12:48:43Z")
…todays Flash update: > [@](#): > > - Seven World Central Kitchen staff members were killed in multiple Israeli airstrikes while travelling in a convoy in Deir al Balah after reportedly coordinating their movement with the Israeli army. > - According to the World Health Organization, Al Shifa Hospital is now in ruins and no longer able to function as a hospital and 21 patients had died during the siege. > - OCHA has documented more than 700 settler violence incidents across the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, since 7 October, constituting a daily average of four incidents. > [@](#): > > Between the afternoon of 29 March and 11:30 on 3 April, according to the Ministry of Health (MoH) in Gaza, 352 Palestinians were killed, and 485 Palestinians were injured, including 59 killed and 83 injured in the past 24 hours. Regarding Al Shifa: > [@](#): > > The Government Medica Office (GMO) in Gaza stated that Israeli forces destroyed all hospital buildings and departments, killed more than 400 people, including five doctors, inside and around the hospital, as well as covered and buried corpses with sand. About 1,050 houses around the hospital were also reportedly burnt or damaged, more than 300 Palestinians have been detained, and more than 100 people remain missing, GMO added, calling for an international investigation into these events, concerted efforts to help resuscitate the health system in Gaza, and the critical need for field hospitals. Similarly calling for the urgent establishment of field hospitals, Dr. Marwan Abu Saadah, the hospital’s acting director [emphasized](https://twitter.com/UN_News_Centre/status/1774893001409442267?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1774893001409442267%7Ctwgr%5E4475554958b9e85928335a7973e578ccadc0d8b3%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.un.org%2Fen%2Fstory%2F2024%2F04%2F1148141) that Al Shifa was the only teaching hospital in Gaza with a 750 bed capacity, over 26 operating theatres, 32 intensive care rooms, a central laboratory, and a 62-bed emergency centre, providing services to more than 250,000 people annually, including some 17,000 surgical operations. Remember it was working over capacity dealing with bombings and crush injuries and famine and sickness and disease. But Al Shifa was also a hospital, that treated all of the things that one would expect hospitals to be able to treat. It was the largest hospital in Gaza, about 30% of capacity. And it’s gone now. > [@](#): > > According to the Palestinian Civil Defense, it has been difficult to ascertain the total number of fatalities as some corpses could not be identified due to decomposition and tens of corpses remain in residential buildings in the hospital’s vicinity. On 2 April, WHO spokesperson, Dr. Margaret Harris, [described](https://twitter.com/UNGeneva/status/1775176522673824180) the destruction of Al Shifa Hospital as “ripping the heart out of the health system in Gaza,” noting that hundreds of health workers have been killed while doing their job in Gaza. > [@](#): > > As of 25 March, WHO has [recorded](https://www.emro.who.int/images/stories/Sitrep_-_issue_26c.pdf?ua=1) 586,402 cases of acute respiratory infections, 81,259 cases of scabies and lice, 46,195 cases of skin rashes, 19,117 cases of jaundice and 7,037 cases of chickenpox. I’ve been regularly posting flash updates in this thread. You can go back and see how massively healthcare has deteriorated in just a few months. Human Rights Watch have just released a report into the bombing of a building in Gaza back in October. > **[Gaza: Israeli Strike Killing 106 Civilians an Apparent War Crime](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/04/gaza-israeli-strike-killing-106-civilians-apparent-war-crime)** > > An Israeli airstrike on a six-story apartment building sheltering hundreds of people in central Gaza on October 31, 2023, is an apparent war crime, Human Rights Watch said today. The attack, which killed at least 106 civilians, including 54 children,... > [@](#): > > - Israeli forces unlawfully attacked a residential building in Gaza on October 31, 2023, absent any apparent military target, killing at least 106 civilians, including 54 children. > … > Human Rights Watch found no evidence of a military target in the vicinity of the building at the time of the Israeli attack, making the strike unlawfully indiscriminate under the laws of war. Israeli authorities have provided no justification for the attack. The Israeli military’s long track record of failing to credibly investigate alleged war crimes underscores the importance of the International Criminal Court (ICC)’s inquiry into serious crimes committed by all parties to the conflict. > … > Witnesses said that on October 31, 350 or more people were staying at the Engineers’ Building, just south of the Nuseirat refugee camp. At least 150 were seeking shelter after fleeing their homes elsewhere in Gaza. > > Without warning, at about 2:30 p.m., four aerial munitions struck the building within about 10 seconds. The building was completely demolished. More at the link. A single attack back in _October_. But its a pattern that can be observed over and over again since the start. From Haaretz (archived link) : > [@](#): > > The doctor at the Sde Teiman facility describes deplorable conditions and violations medical ethics and the law. ‘Two prisoners had their legs amputated due to handcuff injuries, which is a routine event,’ he says in a letter to ministers, attorney general > > … > > He said inmates are fed through straws, defecate in diapers and are held constant restraints, which violate medical ethics and the law. > > … > > He stressed that all the patients at the hospital set up at Sde Teiman are handcuffed by all four limbs, regardless of how dangerous they are deemed. They are blindfolded and fed through a straw. “Under these conditions, in practice, even young and healthy patients lose weight after a week or two of hospitalization,” the physician said. He added that the hospital doesn’t receive regular supplies of medical equipment or medicine. [https://archive.md/gDKgU](https://archive.md/gDKgU) ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4009 "2024-04-04T12:54:19Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > well what exactly do you want me to do about that? Not use the term when it’s not a genocide? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The evidence is all laid out there. You can read it for yourself. And in the months following the submission, Israel’s behaviour has gotten significantly worse. That’s their claim, it isn’t actual evidence which has been proven in a court of actual intent to genocide. Doesn’t mean that just because I dismiss your claims that Israel is doing genocide that its absolved of all warcrimes. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Gaza has been flattened. Out of 32 hospitals, only ten are partially functional right now, and only four of them can really be called “in service.” The IDF burned down the largest hospital in Gaza a few days ago. They did it just as they were leaving. The central laboratory…gone. The surgical unit…gone. Dialysis…gone. Doctors and medical staff murdered or disappeared. Tokyo was firebombed, wasn’t a genocide, neither is this. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Elsewhere in Gaza the only cancer hospital got bulldozed. Nobody can access cancer care any more. There is only a single partially functional hospital in the north. > > Every university in Gaza has been demolished. Academics have been targeted and killed. Refaat Alareer got a phone call saying they knew what school he was sheltering in so he went to stay with his sister instead…and they bombed his sisters apartment, killing him. > > Deliberate, systematic, targeted killing. > > Over 130 Palestinian journalists have been killed in six months. 4 times as many as any other conflict since they started recording the numbers. Deliberate. Targeted. > > Mosques. Churches. Apartment buildings. Farmland. Razed. Bulldozed. Destroyed. Approximately 85% of infrastructure has been damaged or destroyed. > > There are 2.2 million people in Gaza. About 1.5 million of those people have been forced to move to Rafah and the surrounds. Those that are still in the north are trapped. Israel have been denying food aid to get through to the north and have targeted and killed people in crowds merely waiting for food. And now two of the biggest three humanitarian food aid agencies have suspended operations because the IDF can’t stop killing them. > > People are starving. Hundreds of thousands of people will die in Gaza over the next few months, either by bombing, or through famine, or through disease or infection because Israel aren’t even letting most medications through and there is almost no healthcare anyway even if they get sick. ALL of which I’m sure is bad but still doesn’t constitute genocide. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > What part of the case I’ve made for genocide, not only in this post, but the posts that I’ve made in the last two months, do you dispute? All of it? It can be bad and not genocide? You ever thought about that? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I can 100% assure you that I’m not using the word genocide “because its a loaded term.” I intentionally did _not_ use the term because it was a loaded term until the evidence was so overwhelming it is now the most fitting and accurate term to use. But the evidence isn’t overwhelming, so it looks like you allowed emotion to override the fact however awful it is and how bad Israels actions are, it doesn’t constitute a genocide. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4010 "2024-04-04T12:57:56Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Tokyo was firebombed, wasn’t a genocide If 85% of Japan was firebombed, would it have been? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4011 "2024-04-04T12:58:22Z")
It’s apparent to me that the IDF, which used to have a reputation as one of the most highly skilled and capable militaries in the world, is no longer anywhere closer to that. Hitting civilian and aid targets isn’t just morally reprehensible, it’s harmful to actual military goals, and especially harmful to international relations and diplomacy. I suspect that decades of far-right rule and endemic cronyism are largely responsible for this. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4012 "2024-04-04T12:59:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > used to have a reputation as one of the most highly skilled and capable militaries in the world, is no longer anywhere closer to tha If they’re _hitting the targets they intend to_, I see no reason to doubt that their skill or capability has decreased at all. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > it’s harmful to actual military goals Not when genocide _is_ the military goal. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4013 "2024-04-04T13:00:10Z")
“Genocide” doesn’t really bother me here - it’s clear that some elements of Israeli leadership and the IDF either actively wish to empty Gaza, or are indifferent to it. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4014 "2024-04-04T13:01:17Z")
40% of Japan’s urban areas was bombed into oblivion anyway, so that’s a genocide? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4015 "2024-04-04T13:01:51Z")
Genocide is ineffective militarily. We can see that in history - the Nazis diverted resources to genocide that could have helped the front lines. If it’s intentional (and per my previous post I suspect mixed motives), then they’re even weaker and less effective than otherwise. Diverting resources for pointless (and internationally harmful) targets rather than Hamas targets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=193) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=195)