# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/414 "2023-10-19T13:22:27Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > beyond, which could have pressured the governments of these countries to intervene in the conflict in some way. In a way, it did - Abbas canceled his meeting with Biden, which was supposed to take place in Jordan (and that whole visit was actually scrapped). Part of me thinks that Abbas would have canceled anyways based on Hamas’ description of events even if the global media _didn’t_ irresponsibly jump on this story, but who knows? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/423 "2023-10-19T19:09:43Z")
Is the quip about Hamas leaders living in a hotel in Qatar a joke, or real? If it is real, it seems it’s time for the Mossad to do some 1972 Munich Olympics-type vengeance stuff on them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/424 "2023-10-19T19:14:25Z")
> [@IDF's alleged recording of Islamic Jihad, and questions of journalistic integrity and trust](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/40): > > Here’s an article summarizing it, which does not go into greater detail: That is a helpful link, which I hadn’t seen. It lowers my confidence that this was a PIJ attack, by raising a couple of other plausible explanations. But ultimately, I’m just not in a position to make a clear judgment: I have no expertise to bring to the table. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/425 "2023-10-19T19:16:54Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Is the quip about Hamas leaders living in a hotel in Qatar a joke, or real? [It’s real](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/qatar-hamas-israel-1.6999416). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/426 "2023-10-19T19:36:38Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If it is real, it seems it’s time for the Mossad to do some 1972 Munich Olympics-type vengeance stuff on them. You mean when they offed the wrong guy? > **[Lillehammer affair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair)** > > The Lillehammer affair (Hebrew: פרשת לילהאמר, Parshat Lillehammer, Norwegian: Lillehammer-saken) was the murder of Ahmed Bouchikhi, a Moroccan waiter and the brother of the French musician Chico Bouchikhi, by Mossad agents in Lillehammer, Norway, on 21 July 1973. The Israeli agents had mistaken their target for Ali Hassan Salameh, the chief of operations for Black September. Six of 15 of the Mossad team were captured and convicted of complicity in the killing by the Norwegian justice system U... ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/427 "2023-10-19T19:42:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Is the quip about Hamas leaders living in a hotel in Qatar a joke, or real? At least a couple of the Hamas leadership live in Qatar, including the overall leader, and they have offices there. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/428 "2023-10-19T19:46:28Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > At least a couple of the Hamas leadership live in Qatar, including the overall leader, and they have offices there. Nothing a few “hotel staff” or “technicians” can’t solve… ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/432 "2023-10-19T21:54:03Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > At least a couple of the Hamas leadership live in Qatar, including the overall leader, and they have offices there. terrorist orgs nowadays have “offices”? … with office-hours and staff, reception and " _we’re open for business_" signs …? the monty python fan in me rejoices - just thinking about the posibilities … (debating if a “no shoes, no shirt, no service” sign would be an unaprobiate joke here …) ---
**Author:** ![ThisOneGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@ThisOneGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisOneGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/433 "2023-10-19T22:50:35Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > terrorist orgs nowadays have “offices”? … with office-hours and staff, reception and " _we’re open for business_" signs …? Remember that in addition to being a terrorist organization they are the closest thing that Gaza has to a government. So I would expect they lots of offices, receptionists etc. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/434 "2023-10-20T00:24:29Z")
> **[Biden Urges Americans Not To Let Dangerous Online Rhetoric Humanize Palestinians](https://www.theonion.com/biden-urges-americans-not-to-let-dangerous-online-rheto-1850941897)** > > WASHINGTON—Upon returning from his brief diplomatic trip to the Middle East, President Joe Biden urged the nation Thursday not to let dangerous online rhetoric humanize Palestinians. “As the war between Israel and Hamas rages on, I urge my fellow... ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/435 "2023-10-20T00:41:37Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Biden Urges Americans Not To Let Dangerous Online Rhetoric Humanize Palestinians](https://www.theonion.com/biden-urges-americans-not-to-let-dangerous-online-rheto-1850941897) Geebus, I had to look twice at that before seeing The Onion logo at the top. Thanks for making my heart stop too early in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/484 "2023-10-20T17:11:17Z")
Please let me know if this is not the correct thread, but what exactly is the expected desired result of the $ aid Biden proposes for Israel? Is there ANY amount of money that will resolve either the current situation or the longstanding Middle East conflict? I was not under the impression that Israel’s prior security measures were underfunded or neglected. What sort of situation will result from increased funding? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/485 "2023-10-20T17:16:06Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > what exactly is the expected desired result of the $ aid Biden proposes for Israel? To give America stakes and a say, such as when Biden pressured for American aid to enter Gaza through Egypt. If you’re into that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/486 "2023-10-20T17:17:12Z")
Any notion that the US props up Israel in _financial_ terms is fiction. US aid is about 0.7% of GDP. Israel has a big economy. > [@Will Israel destroy Hamas](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/162): > > Total US aid as a percentage of each country’s GDP: > > Syria 7.3% > Jordan 5.7% > Lebanon 3.5% > Yemen 2.3% > Israel 0.7% > Egypt 0.4% In crisis, however, ample liquidity is always important. Plus, of course, aside from the $ cost the US has the will and capability to supply military resources quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/487 "2023-10-20T17:38:37Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Any notion that the US props up Israel in _financial_ terms is fiction. US aid is about 0.7% of GDP. Israel has a big economy. Yeah, that was my impression. I was not suggesting the US regularly provides too much aid to Israel. But Israel is not exactly a poor state which has been underfunding its security. I don’t really care much about Israel one way or another. I have no huge issue with the US expressing strong support for Israel following Hamas’ attack, tho I’m not entirely sure the likely invasion is going to be the sort of action I really would support. I have my personal opinions WRT the legitimacy of the state of Israel, but those are irrelevant to my current question. I have very limited sympathy for any of the Middle East actors, but I’ve pretty much just concluded that there will never be an end to the strife in the area, so I’m not surprised or even terribly dismayed when violence inevitably recurs. If liquidity is a concern, we could always loan them money, or sell them military goods on credit. Of course, we can always just keep printing more! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/488 "2023-10-20T17:58:37Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > If liquidity is a concern, we could always loan them money, or sell them military goods on credit. Of course, we can always just keep printing more! I’m not sure whether _that_ would need to be approved by Congress? Either way, I don’t think the $ are a significant factor in the outcome here. The major factor is obviously the U.S. putting Iran and Hezbollah on notice to stay out of it or expect direct U.S. action against them. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/489 "2023-10-20T20:45:46Z")
Moderating: I just moved nearly 100 posts about how the explosion in the hospital has been covered by the news to their own thread. I hope I didn’t leave too many “loose ends”, where posts refer to something from the other thread. But this thread had spawned a discussion of journalistic integrity and trust which was drowning out every other topic. And this is the general thread. Please reply to those posts in the new thread. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/490 "2023-10-20T23:09:44Z")
I strongly believe Hamas wanted to provoke Israel and draw them into a three prong war. Fighting in Gaza, the West Bank, and Hezbollah in Lebanon. The shit will hit the fan if Iran jumps in too. Israel is a small country with a small population. Their army and special forces were elite for decades. I’m not completely convinced the current generation has the same toughness and fire in their bellies. Does Israel still have fighters like Moshe Dayan and the men he commanded? I hope so because this could be a brutal war if Hezbollah jumps in. Are all Israeli soldiers proficient in Krav Maga? There will be close quarter fighting in Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/491 "2023-10-21T03:12:19Z")
I don’t know what’s going on at The Onion. The Biden headline was in pretty poor taste, but arguably making a point. But now they have this up (I’m not going to link to it): > 'So Horny For This’ Tweets Official Israeli Twitter Account With Picture Of Dead Civilians WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/492 "2023-10-21T05:05:53Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The Biden headline was in pretty poor taste I didn’t really get it, Biden has definitely been good about avoiding any kind of dehumanizing language. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=21)