# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/493 "2023-10-21T06:34:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@Riemann](#): > > > > The Biden headline was in pretty poor taste > > I didn’t really get it, Biden has definitely been good about avoiding any kind of dehumanizing language. > [@Riemann](#): > > I don’t know what’s going on at The Onion. The Biden headline was in pretty poor taste, but arguably making a point. Biden has essentially given Israel carte blanche to do what it whatever it wants to do in Gaza. Israel’s actions have included massive bombardment of Gazan cities, which has killed thousands of Palestinian civilians, the order for a million civilians to leave their homes and become refugees, and the cutting off of water, food, electricity and supplies to Palestinian civilians, which has been widely critized around the world. Many have accused Israel of precipitating a humanitarian crisis, including such bodies as the United Nations, the World Health Organization and the European Commission. Take this Reuters article, for instance: > [@](#): > > Despite Israeli bombardment that has brought Gaza to the brink of a humanitarian meltdown, U.S. President Joe Biden is facing little pressure at home to rein in Israel’s military retaliation for an unprecedented attack by Palestinian Hamas militants. > > Biden appears to have given Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a free hand, for now, to press his war against Hamas, though a threatened ground offensive - with the likelihood of a higher civilian death toll - could force the president to rethink that approach. > > As Biden vows rock-solid support for Israel, he has only faced scattered protest from the left wing of the Democratic Party over his acquiescence to Israel’s tough crackdown in the crowded coastal strip. > > Leading Democrats have helped him keep a lid on any intra-party dissent, seeking to project a message of unity, despite calls from a few progressives to get Israel to act with restraint to avoid massive civilian casualties as it battles Hamas. > > The international outcry mounted on Friday against Israel’s warning to more than a million Gaza civilians to evacuate south within 24 hours before an expected all-out assault. > **[Biden faces little pressure at home to rein in Israel, for now](https://www.reuters.com/world/gaza-crisis-biden-faces-little-pressure-rein-israel-now-2023-10-13/)** > > Despite Israeli bombardment that has brought Gaza to the brink of a humanitarian meltdown, U.S. President Joe Biden is facing little pressure at home to rein in Israel's military retaliation for an unprecedented attack by Palestinian Hamas militants. It should be noted that the above article is from a few days ago and popular opinion in the United States for a ceasefire has grown considerably since then: > The Onion is a humor website. Exaggeration has long been recognised as a tool for comedy. [From Psychology Today](https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/mindbloggling/201908/standup-comedy-technique-1-exaggeration): > [@](#): > > …one of the psychology of humor methods I’ve employed here is exaggeration: You start with something for which there’s a grain of truth and stretch it further and further to some ridiculous extreme. Exaggeration can be a surprisingly simple and effective means of making material funnier, as well as more memorable. [From Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaggeration): > [@](#): > > Emil Draitser writes that “Some theoreticians of the comic consider exaggeration to be a universal comic device.” It may take different forms in different genres, but in the words of M. Eastman and W. Fry, all rely on the fact that ‘the easiest way to make things laughable is to exaggerate to the point of absurdity their salient traits’. While you may not find humor in this particular Onion joke oneself, I hope you can at least see that has followed the familiar path of exaggeration for comic effect used by humorists worldwide. Is the grain of truth there that Biden is not caring for Palestinian civilians? Yes, as the Reuters article demonstrates. Has The Onion exaggerated it to an absurd level? Absolutely. > [@Riemann](#): > > But now they have this up (I’m not going to link to it): > > > 'So Horny For This’ Tweets Official Israeli Twitter Account With Picture Of Dead Civilians > > WTF? I can certainly see that this faux headline could be considered offensive and it seems to have gotten a lot of criticism in the comments to it on Twitter. This is an example of [dark humor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_comedy): > [@](#): > > Black comedy, also known as dark comedy, morbid humor, gallows humor, black humor, or dark humor, is a style of comedy that makes light of subject matter that is generally considered taboo, particularly subjects that are normally considered serious or painful to discuss. Writers and comedians often use it as a tool for exploring vulgar issues by provoking discomfort, serious thought, and amusement for their audience. My interpretation would be that the humorist who wrote the faux Onion headline is making a political statement through comedy against a perceived segment of Israeli society that is bloodthirsty for revenge against Palestinian civilians, and who would use the bombing and humanitarian crisis issues described earlier in this post as evidence in support of this. Private Eye is a famous British satirical magazine that is Britain’s best-selling current affairs magazine. Its recent cover explores similar ground to that of The Onion: [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8v87K-XcAEFimv?format=jpg&name=small) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8v87K-XcAEFimv?format=jpg&name=small) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/494 "2023-10-21T14:06:27Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > While you may not find humor in this particular Onion joke oneself, I hope you can at least see that has followed the familiar path of exaggeration for comic effect used by humorists worldwide Right. So I’d understand if the article was parodying someone who actually dehumanizes Palestinians - rather than the person who is basically their best friend in the outside world right now, since he got them aid and unlike their other muslim “friends” like Iran or Hezbollah he apparently sees them as human beings and not as ammo to burn up agains the Jews. > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > The Onion is a humor website. Exaggeration has long been recognised as a tool for comedy. Holy crap, do you have to condescend this much? I obviously know the Onion. > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > This is an example of [dark humor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_comedy): Holy shit. Yes, we know, dude. You know, if someone created parody articles talking about how bloodthirsty the Palestinians are and how they don’t see Israelis as human beings, I’m sure you would correctly point that out as racist. But I guess it’s fine if it’s directed at “evil colonizers” 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/495 "2023-10-21T14:25:25Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Right. So I’d understand if the article was parodying someone who actually dehumanizes Palestinians - rather than the person who is basically their best friend in the outside world right now, since he got them aid and unlike their other muslim “friends” like Iran or Hezbollah he apparently sees them as human beings and not as ammo to burn up agains the Jews. Let’s follow your logic: [Person who routinely dehumanizes Palestinians] Urges Americans Not To Let Dangerous Online Rhetoric Humanize Palestinians That’s not comedy, that’s just news. Much of what comedy is about is subversion of expectation. The expectation in the Biden Onion article is that Biden would urge Americans not to let dangerous online rhetoric dehumanize Palestinians. That would be the decent and humanitarian thing one would expect someone like Biden to say. However, The Onion has used the opposite premise. That should make the reader wonder why The Onion has done so and cause them to examine the evidence of the situation. Then they will see the grain of truth - the bombing and humanitarian crisis and Biden giving Israel a blank cheque in Gaza - that would suggest Biden is not acting in a humanitarian way towards the Palestinian people. There is the subversion of expectation and the exaggeration of the grain of truth to absurd levels that are hallmarks of comedy. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/496 "2023-10-21T14:27:07Z")
Moderating: @Babale , @Walken_After_Midnight , this is getting heated and personal. Please tone it down. You might both be well served by not responding to each other for a while. Or take it to the pit if need be. This is a topic that is highly personal to many posters, and posters have sympathies on both sides. Everyone, try to be sensitive to the other posters in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/497 "2023-10-21T18:36:31Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Person who routinely dehumanizes Palestinians] Urges Americans Not To Let Dangerous Online Rhetoric Humanize Palestinians > > That’s not comedy, that’s just news. No, the joke is that this person is employing the language of people who are concerned with human rights to say that human rights should be set aside. The incongruity is funny. It’s called a “subversion of expectations”, as you point out. Meanwhile, saying that Biden urges that people don’t humanize the Palestinians is just silly since he has literally done the exact opposite, always clearly bringing up the distinction between Hamas and the Palestinians, urging restraint and humanitarian aid, etc. - all of which is good, but all of which is not always something American presidents are too concerned with, historically. Like you said, a joke needs to have a grain of truth to be funny, and your supposed “grain of truth” is _quite_ a stretch. Obviously, your mileage may vary; but those of us of us who thought it wasn’t particularly funny did so because we don’t see that “grain of truth” that you do; not because we don’t get the basic voncept of a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/498 "2023-10-21T18:44:23Z")
The related post on The Onion’s Twitter account got over 76,000 likes, which is a lot, and far more than any other post they’ve made recently. So clearly a lot of people liked it. If you didn’t find it funny, that’s your prerogative. Comedy is an art not a science, after all. > ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/499 "2023-10-21T20:16:37Z")
Moderating: Okay, both of you drop it. This is a hijack. You aren’t even discussing news, you are discussing an onion article. @Babale and @Walken_After_Midnight, you are both banned from this thread until Monday. Let’s say midnight in Israel, (GMT+3) And everyone, please don’t discuss this article further. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/500 "2023-10-22T01:52:51Z")
[CNN 21 Oct 2023](https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-10-21-23/index.html) **Israeli airstrike on West Bank mosque meant to thwart “imminent terror attack,” IDF says** - The Israeli military said it launched an airstrike early Sunday local time against a mosque in the West Bank city of Jenin to thwart what it called “an imminent terror attack.” - Israel Defense Forces spokesperson Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus told CNN the IDF had new intelligence that “suggested there was an imminent attack coming from a joint Hamas and Islamic Jihad squad” making preparations from an underground command center in the Al-Ansar mosque. - A few months ago, there was significant fighting in Jenin for about two days, and Conricus said during an IDF operation there, they discovered the “terrorist” tunnel system inside the mosque. Israel is preemptively making it a 2 front war. I expect this to escalate protests. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/501 "2023-10-22T02:24:10Z")
So I take it that hamas has released the hostages that they grabbed. That’s wonderful news! ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/502 "2023-10-22T02:52:28Z")
Only the two women from America? Or more? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/503 "2023-10-22T11:03:12Z")
No, just the two. I failed to add the sarcasm code thing. ---
**Author:** ![liirogue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dbc845/32.png) [@liirogue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liirogue)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/504 "2023-10-22T19:26:17Z")
Legitimate question about something I’m not understanding. I’m seeing a lot of stories about people getting cancelled or fired for making remarks that are critical of Israel. The few that I read seemed like it should be a non-issue - for example, being critical of Israel’s blockade of aid supplies, cutting off water, etc. But the backlash claims that they’re being antisemitic. Am I misunderstanding what’s being said, or are these remarks in some way actually antisemitic? Or is the knee-jerk reaction that anything that criticizes Israel/the Israeli government comes from a place of antisemitism? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/505 "2023-10-22T19:28:43Z")
I’ve not been seeing people getting cancelled. Not sure where you’re seeing this. US Public opinion favors Israel due to the barbarity of the Hamas attacks but the support is far from overwhelming for bombing civilian areas even with Hamas targets hiding among them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/506 "2023-10-22T21:03:02Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I’ve not been seeing people getting cancelled. Not sure where you’re seeing this. One example: > **[Harvard letter: Law students who took anti-Israel stance lose job offers](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67152271.amp)** > > An elite US law firm says statements backed by three Ivy League students do not fit with its values. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/507 "2023-10-22T22:20:28Z")
People are getting sanctioned for alleged pro Hamas statements, not pro Palestine statements. Of course it can be a fine line and open to interpretation as to what they meant. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/508 "2023-10-22T22:28:06Z")
Being sympathetic to the Palestinians doesn’t have to be anti-Semitic. It often is and /or perceived to be. Sad for all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/509 "2023-10-22T23:09:40Z")
So, I was talking w/ a couple of guys, and one said something to the effect that he felt so sorry for the Palestinians, because they are not Hamas and don’t agree with them. Which made me wonder, have the Palestinians as a people roundly condemned Hamas’ attacks? Have the Palestinian people - and whatever passes for their government - urged the Israeli army to peacefully enter Gaza whereupon the Palestinians will help them root out the terrible Hamas folk? I’m not trying to paint the Palestinian people one way or another. I believe they have very serious and legitimate grievances with Israel. And I’m not a student of the current situation or recent MidEast issues. But my friend’s comment just made me wonder, when it really comes down to it, how strongly do how many Palestinians disagree with Hamas? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/510 "2023-10-22T23:30:54Z")
It’s a complex situation. This article discusses some of the issues: > **[Don’t Blame Gazans for Hamas](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/dont-blame-gazans-for-hamas.html)** > > The terrorist group has never been very popular among the people it rules. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/511 "2023-10-22T23:58:43Z")
> [@liirogue](#): > > Legitimate question about something I’m not understanding. I’m seeing a lot of stories about people getting cancelled or fired for making remarks that are critical of Israel. The few that I read seemed like it should be a non-issue - for example, being critical of Israel’s blockade of aid supplies, cutting off water, etc. But the backlash claims that they’re being antisemitic. Am I misunderstanding what’s being said, or are these remarks in some way actually antisemitic? Or is the knee-jerk reaction that anything that criticizes Israel/the Israeli government comes from a place of antisemitism? I’ll try to keep this brief: There are people who are, shall we say, _very_ enthusiastic supporters of the current Israeli administration who accuse anyone critical of Netanyahu, his government, Israel, or the IDF of being antisemitic. If they’re gentile they’re accused of antisemitism. If they’re Jewish they’re accused of being either “not a true Jew” or “a self-loathing Jew”. This is more of Netanyahu attempting to control the narrative. I just saw a very offensive (to me) video put out by Israeli propaganda going on and on about how all Jews belong to Israel and they are all strong and united as one with much featuring of camo-clad IDF engaging in combat. Just revolting in the way it assumed all Jews were in lockstep. Excuse me, they are not. There are also reports that Israeli Jews protesting IDF and Netanyahu government actions in Israel are being arrested, sometimes by the IDF and sometimes by vigilantes but I can’t confirm that these are accurate reports. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/512 "2023-10-23T01:25:41Z")
Seems to be all over the place. Palestinian/Americans should be no more condemned than Jewish people. In America. Peaceful protests are one thing but throwing ugly rhetoric around and killing little boys should be stopped as best it can. As too the bad guys trying to deface and bomb synagogues and mosques. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=22)