# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 215
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4418 "2025-05-22T13:01:44Z")
There of course isn’t going to be a single 2-day period where the mass starvation happens. Different places will have different amounts of food stored and different people have different nutrition levels prior to the siege. Of course Israel’s decision to cut off aid for the past 2 months is a bigger deal but it doesn’t help the cause of gazans at risk of famine to be that irresponsible for a high-ranking un official. And the media were the responsible ones in this case - asking the official to clarify what appeared to be a misspeak to someone with any idea of how famines work, but the UN official just doubled down. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4419 "2025-05-22T13:20:51Z")
Sure. And for the record, i don’t doubt that there is widespread famine in Gaza. And that lots of people are dying and will die of famine-related causes. But that particular statement was weirdly stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4420 "2025-05-22T13:23:53Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > that particular statement was weirdly stupid. Yeah, stupidity in high places seems to be a thing these days. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4421 "2025-05-22T17:06:54Z")
The shooting in DC is horrific and helps no one but extremists. In other news, children’s entertainer Ms. Rachel has been attacked for the controversial position that it’s bad when children are bombed or don’t have reliable access to food and education: [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/14/arts/television/ms-rachel-gaza-israel.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/14/arts/television/ms-rachel-gaza-israel.html) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4422 "2025-05-22T18:06:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The shooting in DC is horrific and helps no one but extremists. It’s also entirely predictable when people have been calling for violence for months now. This is what a “Globalized Intifada” looks like. The murderer has a 900 page manifesto that’s been posted online. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4423 "2025-05-22T18:16:14Z")
This is a _very_ insightful article: > **[How anti-Israel rhetoric led to the killing of two in Washington, D.C. ](https://forward.com/opinion/722443/elias-rodriguez-anti-israel-gaza/)** > > The Jewish Museum DC murder of 2 Israeli embassy staffers shows how hateful anti-Israel rhetoric incites violence against Israelis and Jews. Some choice quotes: > [@](#): > > If there was ever a time for reckoning in the anti-Israel movement, this is it. > > The cold-blooded murder of Yaron Lischinsky and Sarah Milgrim in Washington, D.C., last night should mark the beginning of the end — preferably the end of the end — of the zombie belief that the only path to a “Free Palestine” is to abolish Israel. > > Now we see where that eliminationist ideology can lead: to murder. > [@](#): > > No, not everyone who marches for a ceasefire, or in solidarity with suffering Gazans, is calling for the end of Israel. > > But chants of “Intifada! Revolution” and “By Any Means Necessary” implicitly condone violence. The street and campus protesters and the social media warriors think nothing of claiming Israel has no right to exist — a specious idea whose logical extension is that, therefore, no Israeli has the right to exist. > [@](#): > > This is the bile Rodriguez drank, and given how long it’s been spewed — how absolutely Israel and Israelis are demonized by people at both ends of the political spectrum — it was only a matter of time before some delusional freedom fighter decided to take those “intifada” chants as actual marching orders. > > So he walked to a Jewish museum that was hosting a young leadership meeting of the American Jewish Committee, and he opened fire. > [@](#): > > The irony is that while more and more of the Arab world has come to understand this, the Palestinians’ self-appointed saviors in the West still dream of Israel’s eradication. > > While the kaffiyeh-clad crowd are chanting “globalize the intifada!,” more and more Palestinians — in Gaza — are marching against Hamas. Hundreds took to the streets of Khan Yunis over three days this week, chanting, “Out! Out! Out! All of Hamas out!” > > Those who have borne the brunt of Israel’s attack are pointing the finger at the group that caused it — Hamas. But instead of marching in solidarity with these Palestinians, too many American protesters have become leading Hamas apologists, mimicking their rhetoric and justifying their murderousness. > > And in Washington, D.C., one sick soul decided to follow their lead to its logical, tragic conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4424 "2025-05-22T19:51:27Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Some things Netanyahu has said recently about his plans in Gaza: He is a crook, a fascist wanna be and an asshole. > [@Broomstick](#): > > That, and none of those folks are in a position of power to _do something_ to end these endless cycles of violence and retribution. The leader of the Opposition has some power- [https://www.timesofisrael.com/outrage-as-opposition-party-leader-golan-says-israel-killing-babies-as-a-hobby-in-gaza/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/outrage-as-opposition-party-leader-golan-says-israel-killing-babies-as-a-hobby-in-gaza/) > [@Babale](#): > > And you’ll note that the UN is making the exact same bullshit claims it made a year ago, and when stravation fails to materialize in exactly the same way, they’ll say nothing. The UN General assembly is pretty much controlled by anti-israel factions. There are something like 50 nations where Muslims are the majority. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > And for the record, i don’t doubt that there is widespread famine in Gaza. And that lots of people are dying and will die of famine-related causes. How many due to Netanyahu and how many due to Hamas is the question. (Hamas steals aid food to sell)- I suspect Bibi is the main villain here, however. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4425 "2025-05-22T22:33:36Z")
Well, that explains a lot: the shooter was PSL (Party for Socialism and Liberation). You may remember the PSL from the viral video featuring one of their founding members from October 8th, where he led a rally in Times Square and praised Hamas for their use of paragliders and for their murder of the civilians at the Nova festival: > [@](#): > > There was some sort of rave or desert party where they were having a great time, until the resistance came in electrified hang gliders and took at least several dozen hipsters, and I’m sure they’re doing very fine despite what the New York Post says As a member of an organization that blatantly celebrated the Nova massacre in particular, is it any wonder that he ended up murdering civilians? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4426 "2025-05-22T23:29:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > As a member of an organization that blatantly celebrated the Nova massacre in particular, is it any wonder that he ended up murdering civilians? None at all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4427 "2025-05-23T08:24:22Z")
More on starvation in Gaza: > **[Palestinian children suffering from malnutrition overwhelm Gaza's Nasser...](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/palestinian-children-suffering-from-malnutrition-overwhelm-gazas-nasser-hospital)** > > More than 9,000 children in Gaza have been treated for malnutrition this year, according to the U.N. children’s agency, and food security experts say tens of thousands of cases are expected in the coming year. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4428 "2025-05-23T14:36:56Z")
Yeah, malnutrition in kids can reach dangerous levels frighteningly quickly. Not that there’s any truly safe level of malnutrition, but you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4429 "2025-05-23T15:09:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The leader of the Opposition has some power- > > [https://www.timesofisrael.com/outrage-as-opposition-party-leader-golan-says-israel-killing-babies-as-a-hobby-in-gaza/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/outrage-as-opposition-party-leader-golan-says-israel-killing-babies-as-a-hobby-in-gaza/) He’s not the official leader of the Opposition (i.e. the leader of the largest party not in government), his party only has 4 of 120 seats right now. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4430 "2025-05-23T19:18:40Z")
Interesting development in Syria: > **[Syrian government cracks down on Palestinian terror groups - report](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-855211)** > > Tehran-backed faction leaders reportedly fled Damascus amid regime harassment and property seizures. The new Syrian government is aiding (?) Israel in the fight against Jihadists. This is, presumably, to curry favor with the US. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4431 "2025-05-23T19:22:33Z")
It might also be to curry favor with Israel, a local power of some importance. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4432 "2025-05-23T19:55:05Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The new Syrian government is aiding (?) Israel in the fight against Jihadists. This is, presumably, to curry favor with the US. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > It might also be to curry favor with Israel, a local power of some importance Likewise, the PA and Lebanon agreed on a joint proposal to disarm Palestinian groups in Lebanon. [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/23/world/middleeast/lebanon-hezbollah-palestinian-refugee-camps.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/23/world/middleeast/lebanon-hezbollah-palestinian-refugee-camps.html) And hopefully, (what remains of) Hezbollah is next. _Very_ positive developments if your goal is a two state solution. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4433 "2025-05-23T20:10:33Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > It might also be to curry favor with Israel, a local power of some importance. To clarify why I quoted this bit: Syria needs Israel’s “favor”, if you want to call it that, for a very simple reason. At this time, Israel occupies parts of Syria, which it took over after Hezbollah attacked in support of Hamas. Israel continues to occupy this land because, until it did, no one stopped Hezbollah from attacking into Israel with impunity. If Syria wants Israel to respect Syria’s sovereignty and territorial rights over this land, Syria must _prevent people within its borders from violating the sovereignty of Israel, by attacking it._ It’s a two way street. If Syria wants de facto control over those lands, it needs to be able to control them, and impose the state’s monopoly of violence in the area. Otherwise, it can’t really complain about fighting that happens there. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4434 "2025-05-23T21:12:13Z")
Have there been attacks on Israel from Syria since Jolani took over? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4435 "2025-05-23T21:55:21Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If Syria wants Israel to respect Syria’s sovereignty and territorial rights over this land, Syria must _prevent people within its borders from violating the sovereignty of Israel, by attacking it._ Also plausible. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4436 "2025-05-25T09:43:08Z")
Former Israeli PM Ehud Olmert: “Speaking to BBC News, Olmert said what Israel “is doing now in Gaza is very close to a war crime.”” … "Olmert, who served as prime minister from 2006 to 2009, described the ongoing conflict as “a war without a purpose — a war without a chance of achieving anything that can save the lives of the hostages.”’ [https://www.timesofisrael.com/former-pm-olmert-tells-bbc-israeli-actions-in-gaza-close-to-a-war-crime/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/former-pm-olmert-tells-bbc-israeli-actions-in-gaza-close-to-a-war-crime/) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4437 "2025-06-02T00:11:34Z")
Another demonstration of what “Globalize the Intifada” looks like: a Boulder pro-Palestine protestor throws a Molotov cocktail at a group marching in solidarity with the hostages, injuring at least five people - two severely enough that they had to be airlifted to a hospital. > **[Attack at Boulder's Pearl Street Mall in Colorado burns five people, police...](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/colorado/news/colorado-police-responding-to-boulder-pearl-street-mall-attack-multiple-injured/)** > > A man is in custody and suspected in an attack in Boulder. Five people were burned and witnesses said the suspect threw molitov cocktails. They were part of a march for Israeli hostages. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=214) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=216)