# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 216
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4438 "2025-06-02T00:49:19Z")
I don’t understand the logic behind attacks like this or the previous one in DC. I can’t see the leadership of Israel (any leadership, not just Netanyahu) deciding to give up or change course because of terrorists doing terrorism. This isn’t going to make things better for the people of Gaza. If anything, it’s going to make things worse because Trump is going to want to escalate and retaliate against Gaza even if there was no direct connection from Hamas to the attackers in the US. Trump’s preferred solution to the Gaza situation is absolute ethnic cleansing. All this attack is going to do is remind Trump to get started on it. Hopefully cooler heads prevail in Israel when Trump suggests flattening Gaza again by way of response. TLDR version: how much freer is Palestine now? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4439 "2025-06-02T02:10:19Z")
The victims are all older people - 67 to 88 is the age range. Witnesses say the attacker shouted “Free Palestine” and “End Zionist” as he threw the Molotov. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4440 "2025-06-02T06:56:20Z")
Attacks like this are about bigotry and hatred - anything involving Gaza is just an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4441 "2025-06-02T09:08:56Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > All this attack is going to do is remind Trump to get started on it. Hopefully cooler heads prevail in Israel when Trump suggests flattening Gaza again by way of response. Er… “cooler heads”? In the Israeli government? _:::: cue despairing laughter ::::_ ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4442 "2025-06-02T09:16:07Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I don’t understand the logic behind attacks like this That’s because there’s no logic to understand. Lone crazies like this don’t operate on some grand plan. They’re not members of terrorist cells operating with schedules and strategy and end goals. This was just violent rage manifested at an easy target. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4443 "2025-06-02T10:00:51Z")
bad format ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4444 "2025-06-02T10:02:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@DWMarch](#): > > > > I don’t understand the logic behind attacks like this > > That’s because there’s no logic to understand. Lone crazies like this don’t operate on some grand plan. They’re not members of terrorist cells operating with schedules and strategy and end goals. This was just violent rage manifested at an easy target. Yes, the person who did that could have opened fire at a McDonald’s screaming “Christ is Lord” if he’d been exposed to different rhetoric. Raw hated and an urge towards destruction will find some outlet. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4445 "2025-06-02T12:12:23Z")
Well, Trump is gonna have a field day with this… It looks like the terrorist was an Egyptian national who illegally overstayed his visa. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4446 "2025-06-02T12:14:40Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Well, Trump is gonna have a field day with this… It looks like the terrorist was an Egyptian national who illegally overstayed his visa I see it’s currently the top seven stories on the Fox News website. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4447 "2025-06-02T12:19:04Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I see it’s currently the top seven stories on the Fox News website On the (Mobile) site I see it’s only the top two stories, after that it goes to Ukraine’s drone strike on bombers and to Trump vs cartels. But I expect they’ll have a field day, too. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4448 "2025-06-02T20:01:59Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Er… “cooler heads”? In the Israeli government? I mean compared to Trump who is probably telling Israel (for the sixth or seventh time) that they should just nuke Gaza. I am not a fan of Netanyahu but I still laugh thinking about when he called Trump an “outside-the-box thinker”, the very definition of a backhanded compliment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4449 "2025-06-03T01:47:20Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I mean compared to Trump who is probably telling Israel (for the sixth or seventh time) that they should just nuke Gaza. ‘What, because of the attack in Boulder?’ ‘There was an attack in Boulder?’ ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4450 "2025-06-03T02:09:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s because there’s no logic to understand. Lone crazies like this don’t operate on some grand plan. They’re not members of terrorist cells operating with schedules and strategy and end goals. No kidding. I read that he held off on the attack for a year until his daughter graduated (with a scholarship!). However, if his immigration status is any indicator of the family’s status, that poor girl won’t be attending any medical schools in the US. Great way to paint a target on his family’s back and get them deported post haste. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4451 "2025-06-03T08:30:41Z")
According to reports, the IDF massacred civilians at a food aid distribution site: > **[Palestine: Dozens of Palestinians massacred at U.S.-Israel backed food...](https://www.doctorswithoutborders.ca/palestine-dozens-of-palestinians-massacred-at-u-s-israel-backed-food-distribution-sites/)** > > Dozens of Palestinians killed, hundreds injured while seeking food at Gaza humanitarian assistance distribution sites backed by the U.S. and Israel. MSF teams join the mass casualty response amid reports of indiscriminate gunfire. Only a lasting... ISTM that the IDF, at best, is incapable of safely distributing aid. And if so, then they have a moral duty to allow other organizations to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4452 "2025-06-03T10:40:41Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > However, if his immigration status is any indicator of the family’s status, that poor girl won’t be attending any medical schools in the US. Great way to paint a target on his family’s back and get them deported post haste. Absolutely. There’s no way that Trump and his arse-licker Noem won’t target the family of this man ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4453 "2025-06-03T10:42:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > ISTM that the IDF, at best, is incapable of safely distributing aid. And if so, then they have a moral duty to allow other organizations to do so. I _think_ what’s happening here is that desperate people are acting exactly like desperate people do, and the IDF is interpreting that as a “riot” or even an “attack” and firing shots to “calm things down” or “take control” or whatever excuse they come up with. Oddly enough this doesn’t work. It _never_ works because the gunfire causes _actual_ panic. Yet the IDF keeps doing the same thing over and over. I can’t figure out if they want a different result or this is the result they want. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4454 "2025-06-03T14:44:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > According to reports, the IDF massacred civilians at a food aid distribution site: You can expect to see a lot of BS reports like that I. The next few days - the GHF is an existential threat to the whole aid-to-Hamas pipeline that organizations like UNRWA have been so complicit in creating over the last few decades. Cutting off the “humanitarian” organizations which, as we have seen time and time again, are uniquely corrupted and infiltrated by Hamas in this particular conflict, and getting aid directly to the people who need it (people who have been shocked that the aid is free, by the way; they’re used to paying Hamas for UNRWA aid) is a way to shortcircuit the ways that UNRWA, Hamas, and other have entranced themselves into Palestinian society, so it’s no wonder they’re so opposed to it. Like other reports of shootings at the GHF site, this one appears to be bullshit, with zero evidence, footage, etc provided that would certainly exist if the IDF just unloaded on a crowd of Palestinian refugees. In fact, the shooting referenced happened half a kilometer away from the aid distribution site, near the Netzarim crossing. And it didn’t involve people lining up for food. > **[צה"ל ירה לעבר חשודים, בעזה זעקו "טבח" והקרן הזהירה: "דרך לא בטוחה"](https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/hy11kr11nmxx)** > > בפעם השנייה תוך יומיים, בעזה טענו שחיילים ירו לעבר ממתינים לסיוע ליד רפיח - וגרמו ל-27 הרוגים ועשרות פצועים. בפעם הקודמת צה"ל הכחיש רק אחרי שעות, הפעם הגיב מהר יותר וטען: מדובר ב"חשודים בודדים" שהתקרבו לכוחות, ובירי במרחק של כחצי ק"מ ממתחם הסיוע. GHF... I mean, it should be _completely obvious_ that this didn’t happen, because _specifically for this reason_ the IDF is _not even present_ at the GHF site. Security is provided by American private security firms that are mostly employing local Palestinians. So anyone who’s been paying attention to the conflict and to the GHF situation would know that if a shooting happened, it either didn’t involve the IDF, or it wasn’t at the aid distribution site. The claim is farcical on its face. But again, if you think about _why_ an organization like Doctors Without Borders would say something like this, it is perfectly clear; their incentive structure rewards entrancing themselves as the only providers of aid possible, not actually resolving the issue. > [@Broomstick](#): > > I _think_ what’s happening here is that desperate people are acting exactly like desperate people do, and the IDF is interpreting that as a “riot” or even an “attack” and firing shots to “calm things down” or “take control” or whatever excuse they come up with. That might make sense if this incident happened at the GHF aid site, or if the IDF was present at the GHF site. But those are both lies. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4455 "2025-06-03T14:58:49Z")
I can’t read the Hebrew link. I’ll also note that half a kilometer is 500 m, about a five or ten minute walk at most, so not very far at all. Here’s the Wikipedia link about these shootings, which includes multiple linked sources: [Rafah aid distribution incidents - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_aid_distribution_incidents) I’ll also note that the GHF is a Trump and Netanyahu backed organization whose founder, Jake Wood, resigned after just a few months based on conflicts about independence and impartiality: [https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/26/middleeast/gaza-humanitarian-foundation-aid-resigns-intl-hnk](https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/26/middleeast/gaza-humanitarian-foundation-aid-resigns-intl-hnk) I don’t trust Trump and Netanyahu any more than I trust Hamas, so I’m not at all sold on the GHF. If the IDF stays within a few hundred meters, that’s hardly “not being present” IMO. As always in Gaza lately, it’s extremely hard to determine accurate reporting, as much or more due to the IDF as due to Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4456 "2025-06-03T15:26:03Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That might make sense if this incident happened at the GHF aid site, or if the IDF was present at the GHF site. But those are both lies. I’m not convinced that shooting(s) didn’t take place. I do agree that determining WHO did such an act is more fuzzy. That said - I wouldn’t trust “private security” to be well behaved. There’ s a long history of “private security” being even worse than the military/police in handling crowd situations. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4457 "2025-06-03T15:32:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > their incentive structure rewards entrancing themselves as the only providers of aid possible “Entrancing?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=215) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=217)