# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 224
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4598 "2025-06-27T15:23:24Z")
Me too. And I hope they investigate the commanders who are giving these orders, not just blame the soldiers carrying them out. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4599 "2025-06-27T15:23:24Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And it says the soldiers are calling it “red light/green light” (some other name for the Hebrew version of the game) where “it” calls out whether you can go, and anyone who moves too soon or too late is “out”. …stuff like this has been regularly reported from the ground: > > [@](#): > > On Facebook, the GHF page announced the opening of the distribution point, only to close it just 4 minutes later. Four minutes of aid delivery, immediately followed by gunfire on innocent, starving Palestinians. I’ve seen video footage of people trying to run the gauntlet to get food and it looks exactly like something out of squid games or the running man to me. It’s utterly dystopian. All Twitter links. None of them are mainstream links sorry which is what I would normally post. All safe for work, although there are plenty more that show the carnage. > > > ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4600 "2025-06-27T15:24:00Z")
If this article isn’t damning, then it’s pretty clear that nothing could ever be damning. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4601 "2025-06-27T16:03:36Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I hope they let normal aid distribution groups who have experience distributing aid without routinely killing people back into Gaza. And i hope there’s a fair investigation of this whole sick exercise in Israel, with real consequences. I agree. I also hope I get a flying pony that poops emeralds for Chanukah. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4602 "2025-06-27T16:05:05Z")
I find it incredibly interesting that the very same people who told us “Maybe the Supreme Leader of Iran was just being hyperbolic when he said that Israel must be destroyed, don’t worry about his nuclear program” are also telling us that gallows humor jokes from 18 year old soldiers is indicative of genocidal intent. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4603 "2025-06-27T16:11:15Z")
Have a cite that _anyone_ participating in the discussion of this article has ever said anything of the kind? I know I haven’t, I’d bet my house that puzzlegal hasn’t, and I doubt very much that DemonTree, iiandyii, or probably even Banquet Bear ever has. So are you tarring an entire group of posters with a broad brush, or are you just flat out making shit up? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4604 "2025-06-27T16:13:34Z")
Yeah, it’s been the official policy of Iran for decades that Israel must be destroyed. I don’t think there’s any hyperbole there. And i can’t recall anyone saying that, here, or really, anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4605 "2025-06-27T16:15:56Z")
As far as I can tell, you’ve rejected every single report of atrocious behavior by the IDF. No matter who reports it. Is there anything short of the word of god that would have you acknowledge wrongdoing? And whataboutism is beneath this board. I’m no fan of Iran. I have no beef with Israel attacking its nuclear program (though, I am very cynical about the timing). I visit Israel regularly (or, did) and am quite fond of it and its people. But that doesn’t mean (just like my country) it and its army can’t sometimes lose its way and do horrible things. It sure seems like you can’t admit the same. It’s past time to stop tormenting Palestinians. And whether it’s actual government policy or just blood lust, that is what’s happening. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4606 "2025-06-27T16:19:03Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Have a cite that _anyone_ participating in the discussion of this article has ever said anything of the kind? I know I haven’t, I’d bet my house that puzzlegal hasn’t, and I doubt very much that DemonTree, iiandyii, or probably even Banquet Bear ever has. > > So are you tarring an entire group of posters with a broad brush, or are you just flat out making shit up? No, I don’t make shit up: > [@Fuck all you warmongering pieces of shit](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/262): > > Apparently Iranian state media is claiming destruction of an American military base, and near destruction of Israel. Or similar fantasy nonsense. All for internal politics. Does that make any warmongers consider that maybe Iranian calls for the destruction of Israel (and the US, for that matter) are mostly just bluster for internal purposes, rather than a real existential threat? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4607 "2025-06-27T16:20:09Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > As far as I can tell, you’ve rejected every single report of atrocious behavior by the IDF. No matter who reports it. What exactly did I reject here? The IDF shot at people who entered a militarized zone after they fired warning shots. I don’t dispute that report. What I dispute is that this is in any way unusual or inconsistent with how any army on the planet would act in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4608 "2025-06-27T16:21:46Z")
You’re doing it now. You’re ignoring the “atrocious” part. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4609 "2025-06-27T16:30:05Z")
No big deal. Every army in the world has soldiers reporting to media that they were ordered to shoot unarmed civilians who posed no threat. And they all use cruel Squid-games rules when distributing aid, killing those who break the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4610 "2025-06-27T16:34:50Z")
That’s why no army in the history of the world has ever been able to successfully keep an occupied population from starving to death. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4611 "2025-06-27T16:42:04Z")
[![](https://i.imgflip.com/9yppbr.jpg) ](https://i.imgflip.com/9yppbr.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4612 "2025-06-27T16:45:11Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > That’s why no army in the history of the world has ever been able to successfully keep an occupied population from starving to death. Oh, so that’s what we did wrong in the Berlin Airlift. We should have delivered food and not dropped bombs. It makes so much more sense now. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4613 "2025-06-27T16:46:47Z")
If only those stupid German children had listened when we dropped the little bombs with handkerchief parachutes they might have lived. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4614 "2025-06-27T16:47:25Z")
Well, that’s an ungenerous paraphrase of his post, and I don’t actually disagree with what he said; it’s certainly a realistic possibility, even a _strong_ possibility, that the mullahs aren’t actually insane enough to start a war which would inevitably end in the annihilation of their own country. If he had said that there is NO realistic possibility that they actually mean what they say, and/or that Iran’s nuclear program is literally “nothing to worry about”, that would be IMO idiotic. But reasonable people can disagree over whether the risks of not starting this war outweigh the benefits, without claiming that the risks involved are nonexistent. Having said that, I share your frustration with those posters who handwave away the evidence coming from the IAEA and other non-Israeli sources that Iran has escalated its nuclear program in the recent past. And I must also admire your skill in deflecting the conversation from obviously indefensible Israeli actions to arguably defensible ones. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4615 "2025-06-27T16:58:50Z")
Though there was that unfortunate case–and I do mean that in a non-sarcastic way of two groups unfortunately not talking to each other–of earlier Americans made humanitarian daily ration packs being close to the color of cluster bombs. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4616 "2025-06-27T17:04:07Z")
The Soviets did it intentionally in Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![DETXL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/detxl/32/19366_2.png) [@DETXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DETXL)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4617 "2025-06-27T17:09:51Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > What I dispute is that this is in any way unusual or inconsistent with how any army on the planet would act in that situation. Stipulating that this is true, or at least stipulating that it is not the IDF’s intentional mandate to be killing innocent civilians and that the soldiers put in this position do not want to be doing so: isn’t the difference that the Israeli government has created this problem for, and essentially by, itself? I’m ask this sincerely—I don’t speak Hebrew and I have not followed the nuances of those political questions: has Israel requested that some peacekeeping organization with better capability and expertise in crowd control take over and been rejected by those organizations? Because if the alternatives are: 1. Relinquish control of humanitarian aid under the assumption that some of it will, indeed, be siphoned off by corrupt local authorities and used to fund Hamas and other terrorist organizations, or 2. Retain control while employing underqualified, overstressed soldiers whose reactions regularly result in the deaths of the people those soldiers have implicitly assumed responsibility for by insisting that any other aid organization is intolerable There must be some point where the first option is the “least bad” one by such a wide margin that “every other army would react this way”—even if true, is outweighed by—“that’s why we don’t ask armies to be solely responsible for aid distribution in an extended humanitarian crisis.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=223) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=225)