# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 227
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4658 "2025-07-04T19:13:24Z")
Some group that doesn’t shoot unarmed civilians who pose no threat. Reporting demonstrates that that rules out mercenaries and the IDF, so Israel should be asking an international organization to take over. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4659 "2025-07-04T19:38:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > None of that requires using mercenaries So, you don’t want someone paid to enforce marshal law in a war zone which includes soldiers. Not going to happen as long as Hamas exists as a guerilla force among civilians. Hamas uses children in their war efforts so there is no way of knowing who is and is not armed. This is an army funded by a religious government who sent children into mine fields during wars. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4660 "2025-07-04T19:40:31Z")
Then, clearly, the Israeli army should shoot children. Wouldn’t you agree Magiver? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4661 "2025-07-04T19:42:38Z")
Both the mercenaries and IDF members have reported to journalists that they are shooting very clearly unarmed civilians who pose no threat at all. Not secret Hamas, but obviously unarmed civilians who pose no threat. It’s clear that this IDF and this Israeli government are incapable of safely distributing aid. So they should ask an outside organization to do it. Not everything is Hamas’s fault. Israel and the IDF are making choices too. Sometimes they’re making wrong ones that should be criticized. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4662 "2025-07-04T19:47:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So they should ask an outside organization to do it. I would propose using airdropped monkeys on motorcycles to distribute food, water and hand sanitizer. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4663 "2025-07-04T19:51:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not secret Hamas, but obviously unarmed civilians who pose no threat How do you know someone is unarmed? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4664 "2025-07-04T19:52:37Z")
This is ridiculous. Maybe you’re fine with the fact that IDF members and mercenaries have decided, because of their own consciences, to tell journalists that their colleagues are doing terrible things up to and including murdering unarmed civilians. I’m not. If you’re okay with killing unarmed civilians for no reason at all, then that’s on you. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4665 "2025-07-04T19:55:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is ridiculous. You’re assuming it happened. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4666 "2025-07-04T19:56:50Z")
Sure, maybe it was all made up. I guess we should just trust that everything is perfect as long as the Israeli government and Trump tell us so, right? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4667 "2025-07-04T20:06:45Z")
You’ve made statements as if they’re fact and then gone on a rant based on it which I will now leave you to it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4668 "2025-07-04T20:11:24Z")
It’s a fact that IDF members and mercenaries have reported to journalists that their colleagues are doing terrible things, up to and including murdering unarmed civilians that pose no threat. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4669 "2025-07-05T01:52:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Any obligation to feed opposing civilians involves preventing opposing military troops from getting supplies. …there is no evidence that Hamas were preventing civilians from getting supplies. The humanitarian agencies on the ground had established supply corridors, security, and decades of experience of distributing not just food (which is the only thing the GHF provides) , but _all_ aid, including water, fuel, medical supplies, tents, shelter, baby formula and feminine hygiene products. The biggest impediment to getting aid to Palestinian civilians _has been the IDF_. Planned aid movements have consistently been denied by the IDF. And many that have been approved have been redirected through areas being controlled by Isreali-backed gangs. It is this bad right now: > [@Gaza Flash Update](#): > > - A total collapse of humanitarian operations is imminently expected if no fuel enters the Gaza Strip. All the quantities of retrieved fuel from accessible reserves within Gaza have been allocated to humanitarian partners and operations, leaving no fuel supplies currently available for distribution. As a result, life-saving services, including health, water and sanitation, telecommunications and protection services are at imminent risk of shutting down, including inter alia: > - Food supply delivery and distribution, heightening the risk of famine. > - 72 of 90 health facilities and 25 ambulances points, jeopardizing the continued operation of Intensive Care Units (ICU), neonatal ICUs, and dialysis, ambulance and vaccine services. The remaining facilities are reducing their operations, relying on the very limited remaining stock of fuel. > - Water production, sewage, and solid waste management services, with many already scaled down, threatening public health. > - A telecommunications blackout, threatening aid delivery, coordination and civilian safety. > - Lifesaving rescue missions and road clearance operations. > - Collection of aid cargo from crossings. > **[Humanitarian Situation Update #302 | Gaza Strip | United Nations Office for...](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/humanitarian-situation-update-302-gaza-strip)** > > Attacks on tents and schools hosting displaced people and on people trying to access food continue to be reported, resulting in mass casualties. This _isn’t_ caused by Hamas. It has been caused because Israel _isn’t allowing fuel into the strip_. > [@Magiver](#): > > Who does it require? It requires giving back control of the aid response to organisations like UNRWA, who have been subject of an organised disinformation campaign. They have the capacity, the networks, the systems, the expertise and the experience to do the job. The IDF just needs to get out of their way. > [@Magiver](#): > > So, you don’t want someone paid to enforce marshal law in a war zone which includes soldiers. “Martial law” isn’t the right word to be using here. _Occupation_ is more appropriate. And the occupying power has obligations under international humanitarian law which Israel are not meeting. > [@Magiver](#): > > Hamas uses children in their war efforts Cite please. Specific to _this_ “war.” > [@Magiver](#): > > so there is no way of knowing who is and is not armed. > [@Magiver](#): > > How do you know someone is unarmed? The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation don’t have a system that ensures people seeking aid are “not armed.” And one would think that every supporter of the 2nd amendment would support the right of Palestinians to be armed in order to protect themselves. The more important question here is…what are the rules of engagement that armed mercenaries working for the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation are following? And does it allow them to open fire on a crowd if they merely _suspect_ someone is armed? There should be transparency here, don’t you agree? > [@Magiver](#): > > You’re assuming it happened. We know that hundreds of Palestinians have been killed trying to access aid, and that thousands have been wounded. There are international doctors working at hospitals that daily have to scale up due to mass-casualty events. They are reporting the carnage. The dead bodies exist. And the incidents are being independently verified by Armed Conflict Location and Event Data. Their methodology can be found here: > **[How does ACLED source events in Israel/Palestine? - ACLED](https://acleddata.com/knowledge-base/israel-palestine-sourcing-profile/)** > > Published on: | Last updated:  Each week, ACLED researchers review dozens of English and Arabic language sources to code political violence and demonstrations across Israel and Palestine. The media environment in… Can you clarify exactly what it is that you doubt? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4670 "2025-07-05T02:14:33Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > “Martial law” isn’t the right word to be using here. _Occupation_ is more appropriate. War is the correct term. Until Hamas surrenders and returns the hostages they are at war. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4671 "2025-07-05T02:34:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > War is the correct term. …martial law isn’t the correct term in context. _Occupation_ is more appropriate. And Hamas had both agreed to release all of the hostages and step down in power. That should be enough to at the very least end hostilities. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4672 "2025-07-05T07:42:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Until Hamas surrenders and returns the hostages they are at war. If they’re at war, then the IDF has obligations under the rule of law. That they’re not meeting. In the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4673 "2025-07-05T21:41:54Z")
Are you saying that it’s perfectly fine that IDF members and mercs they hired are shooting unarmed civilians who pose no threat because it’s a war? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4674 "2025-07-07T14:56:04Z")
Another IDF member comes forward and says killing unarmed civilians who pose no threat at all is happening frequently: > **[Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza](https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422)** > > Speaking in a rare on-camera interview with Sky News, the soldier said the criteria of opening fire on civilians shifted depending on the commander. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2025, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4675 "2025-07-11T01:16:39Z")
Israeli defense minister Israel Katz (a Likud member) has announced a plan to move the entire population of Gaza into a concentration camp. Under the plan they would not be allowed to leave and reenter the rest of Gaza, but based on what Netanyahu has said, the plan appears to be that they would be allowed to “voluntarily” emigrate out of the country entirely. > **[Israel defence minister plans to move Gaza's population to camp](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp31lk7mzo)** > > Israel Katz tells Israeli media the so-called "humanitarian city" in Rafah will eventually house 2.1 million Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2025, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4676 "2025-07-11T07:18:52Z")
Another day, another massacre. > **[Israeli strike kills at least 10 children queueing for medical treatment in Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/10/israeli-strike-kills-people-queueing-medical-point-gaza)** > > Children among at least 15 killed in attack that NGO says was ‘blatant violation of international humanitarian law’ Israel has no need to build death camps, Gaza _is_ a death camp already. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2025, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4677 "2025-07-11T07:23:06Z")
Three cheers for openly stated ethnic cleansing! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=226) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=228)