# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 233
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4778 "2025-07-21T00:39:34Z")
…from the Deputy Executive Director and Chief Operating Officer, World Food Programme, today: > [@](#): > > There have been many difficult days for our team in Gaza. Today, we reached a new low point. This cannot continue. > > > World Food Programme @WFP He’s talking about this: > [@WFP](#): > > On the morning of 20 July, a 25 truck WFP convoy carrying vital food assistance crossed the Zikim border point destined for starving communities in northern Gaza. > > Shortly after passing the final checkpoint beyond the Zikim crossing point into Gaza, the convoy encountered large crowds of civilians anxiously waiting to access desperately needed food supplies. > > **As the convoy approached, the surrounding crowd came under fire from Israeli tanks, snipers and other gunfire.** > > We are deeply concerned and saddened by this tragic incident resulting in the loss of countless lives. Many more suffered life-threatening injuries. These people were simply trying to access food to feed themselves and their families on the brink of starvation. This terrible incident underscores the increasingly dangerous conditions under which humanitarian operations are forced to be conducted in Gaza. > > **Today’s violent incident comes despite assurances from Israeli authorities that humanitarian operational conditions would improve; including that armed forces will not be present nor engage at any stage along humanitarian convoy routes.** > > There should never, ever, be armed groups near or on our aid convoys, as reiterated on many occasions to all parties to the conflict. Shootings near humanitarian missions, convoys and food distributions must stop immediately. Any violence involving civilians seeking humanitarian aid is completely unacceptable. Bolding mine. > The estimates are about 85 people were killed today, including this incident _just seeking food_. About double the daily average. And that doesn’t include people killed in other attacks around Gaza, it normally takes a while to get those numbers, however reporting is so fragmented because the country is so broken everything is an undercount anyway. It doesn’t include people dying of starvation. We know that just with children, that number is about 40 this month so far that we know of. But for all of the people still trapped in militarised zones, still trapped in the north, we simply don’t know what is happening. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4779 "2025-07-21T10:31:06Z")
US propaganda was inching over against Netanyahu on todays’ Morning Joe. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4780 "2025-07-21T12:01:08Z")
…from Jan Egeland, Secretary General of the Norwegian Refugee Council. > [@](#): > > Israel has ordered mass relocations from displacement camps in Deir al-Balah — forcing families who already lost everything to move yet again. > > 93% of Gaza is now off-limits. This is like relocating the entire UK population to Wales. > Gaza Maps shows the latest displacement: > **[Forced displacement order from 20 July, 2025](https://gazamaps.com/displacement/135)** > > Israel uses maps as weapons. We study those maps. So I’ll wait until the next flash update to confirm the percentages, but it now looks like the people of Gaza have been squeezed into at the very least less than 10% of the land. Millions of people, mostly in tents, limited to no reliable access to food, water, aid. This of course doesn’t account for probably tens of thousands who haven’t been able to evacuate and are trapped throughout the country in militarised zones. Some of those zones like Rafah have been practically flattened. Many families _were_ trapped there. Many are missing. Scattered reports that at least 20 died from starvation over the last 48 hours. That tracks with the number I quoted earlier, both from the MOH, however the reporting I suspect will be haphazard over the coming months. Because the reporting will only cover deaths that are known about. But people dying, isolated in tents and buried by family won’t be recorded in the official numbers for a while, if ever. We won’t know the true death toll in Gaza for years, perhaps decades after this is all over. But the experts on the ground are all saying the same thing: we’ve crossed a threshold. And people are now just going to start dying. We all watched as this happened. We voted for it. Funded it. Supported it. And this is on us. I’m quietly resigned that this is going to happen. I’ve gotten over my “stages of grief” and am oddly detached emotionally over what we are about to witness. I’m quietly hoping that Israel will do the right thing and let the aid agencies do their jobs. But I don’t think that will happen. They are committed to this. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4781 "2025-07-21T12:41:10Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > We all watched as this happened. We voted for it. Funded it. Supported it. Sadly true. Blind support of the IDF no longer yields value to the US. I believe our propaganda will begin to emphasize Israeli persecution of Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4782 "2025-07-21T15:24:05Z")
…a joint statement from the UK and 25 international partners > [@](#): > > We, the signatories listed below, come together with a simple, urgent message: the war in Gaza must end now. > > The suffering of civilians in Gaza has reached new depths. The Israeli government’s aid delivery model is dangerous, fuels instability and deprives Gazans of human dignity. We condemn the drip feeding of aid and the inhumane killing of civilians, including children, seeking to meet their most basic needs of water and food. It is horrifying that over 800 Palestinians have been killed while seeking aid. The Israeli Government’s denial of essential humanitarian assistance to the civilian population is unacceptable. Israel must comply with its obligations under international humanitarian law. > **[Occupied Palestinian Territories: joint statement, 21 July 2025](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-statement-on-the-occupied-palestinian-territories)** > > The UK and 25 international partners gave a joint statement on the Occupied Palestinian Territories. More at the link including calls for the hostages to be released. Signed by \* foreign ministers of Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the UK. Not signed by the USA. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4783 "2025-07-21T17:07:37Z")
Moderating: > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > It mattered to me as well. It was an atrocity. A war crime. Blatant and multiple breaches of international humanitarian law. I don’t care _who_commits the crime. That shouldn’t matter at all. > > > > So why does it matter to you? Why are you indifferent when Israel commits atrocities? > > It was, as you say, an atrocity. I don’t care whether it was a breach of international law — it’s not like the authorities could be called in to enforce a law following said atrocity, it doesn’t actually matter at all — but, as far as I can tell, Israel decided that the world _wasn’t_ to remember what happened on October the 7th as a successful tactic worth emulating; that what will _instead_ be remembered is how Israel chose to respond to that atrocity with much greater atrocities: will remember what became of the Palestinian people — while most of the world showed indifference — when deciding whether it’s in your best interests to commit an October 7th style attack on Israel. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > > Is your defence of atrocities carried out by Israel the fact that we should have just _expected_ Israel to commit atrocities because that’s just what they do? > > It is — demonstrably — what they do in response to an attack like the 10/7 atrocity. When deciding whether to commit something like unto the 10/7 attack on Israel, I would recommend that people recall what Israel does in response to an attack like the 10/7 atrocity. > > My question to you would be: _was_ this response to 10/7 what people expected? > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, now you know better; possibly the people who carried out the 10/7 attack _likewise_ didn’t expect the Israelis to respond this way, and possibly the next people thinking of carrying out a 10/7-style attack will _likewise_ now know better > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Do you condemn atrocities committed by the IDF in response to the attacks on October 7th? > > What? No, of course not. Wow; here I was, thinking this whole thing was getting _repetitive_ — that we’re clearly just going around in circles — and, somehow, I haven’t yet gotten this across to you? > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > > So, for the sake of clarity: you _support_ atrocities committed by the IDF in response to the attacks on October 7th? > > I don’t see how you could possibly need further clarity at this point, but: yes, I support the atrocities committed by the IDF in response to the attacks on October 7th. After a somewhat lengthy discussion, the mods feel these posts are heading towards Abhorrent/Hate speech (explicitly supporting atrocities) and that all posters should be mindful of such going forward. For reference: Abhorrent views. If you express yourself in a way we consider to be beyond the pale of civil discussion, whether in style or substance, we will warn you to stop, specifying what it is we want you to cease doing, on penalty of losing your posting privileges. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4784 "2025-07-22T03:09:10Z")
…today in Gaza, the IDF raided the World Health Organisation and have kidnapped one of their staff. > [@WHO](#): > > WHO condemns in the strongest terms the attacks on a building housing WHO staff in Deir al Balah in Gaza, the mistreatment of those sheltering there, and the destruction of its main warehouse. > > Following intensified hostilities in Deir al Balah after the latest evacuation order issued by Israeli military, the WHO staff residence was attacked three times today. Staff and their families, including children, were exposed to grave danger and traumatized after airstrikes caused a fire and significant damage. > … > WHO demands continuous protection of its staff and the immediate release of the remaining detained staff member. > > The latest evacuation order has affected several WHO premises. As the United Nations’s (UN) lead health agency, WHO’s operational presence in Gaza is now compromised, crippling efforts to sustain a collapsing health system and pushing survival further out of reach for more than two million people. > > Most of WHO’s staff housing is now inaccessible. Last night, due to intensified hostilities, 43 staff and their families were already relocated from several staff residences to the WHO office, under darkness and at significant risk. [WHO operations compromised following attacks on warehouse and facility sheltering staff and families in Deir al Balah, Gaza](https://www.who.int/news/item/21-07-2025-who-operations-compromised-following-attacks-on-warehouse-and-facility-sheltering-staff-and-families-in-deir-al-balah#:~:text=Following%20intensified%20hostilities%20in%20Deir,a%20fire%20and%20significant%20damage). Today in Gaza, the AFP journalists organisation warned that this could be the first time they’ve ever lost a journalist to starvation. > [@](#): > > The AFP journalists’ association on Monday warned that journalists working with the news agency in the Gaza Strip are facing extreme food shortages and risk starving amid the ongoing Israeli blockade of aid delivery and strikes. > > Issuing a stark warning, the SDJ, the French news agency’s journalists’ association, said that they refuse to let their staff see them die. > > “Since AFP was founded in August 1944, we have lost journalists in conflicts, we have had wounded and prisoners in our ranks, but none of us can recall seeing a colleague die of hunger,” the association said in a post on X, sharing the statement. > … > Naming one of them, Bashar Taleb, who is working for the agency as a photographer, the union shared his social media post, showing grave conditions in the besieged enclave. > > “I don’t have the power to cover media anymore. My body is lean and I no longer have the ability to walk,” Taleb, 30, wrote in a Facebook post on Saturday. > > He also said that his older brother fell on Sunday morning from the severity of hunger. [https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/afp-journalists-in-gaza-at-risk-of-starvation-warns-journalists-association/3637836](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/afp-journalists-in-gaza-at-risk-of-starvation-warns-journalists-association/3637836) Today in Gaza, the IDF bombed a kindergarten. Twitter link, graphic (but blurred) footage. [https://x.com/anadoluagency/status/1947324658866331805](https://x.com/anadoluagency/status/1947324658866331805) Today in Gaza the Official account of IDF International Spokesperson Lieutenant Colonel Nadav Shoshani released a propaganda video on Twitter where he _claims_ that civilians are “advancing” towards soldiers when it’s plainly obvious they are advancing on stockpiles of food. And he acts as if the solders are showing incredible restraint as the order to “not engage” and “do not shoot” is yelled out over and over again. > It’s almost as if they have to be reminded, “we are filming this! Don’t shoot this time! Wait for the cameras to be turned off! Hold on…WE ARE STILL FILMING!” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4785 "2025-07-22T07:19:38Z")
I mean, nice words and all, _finally_, but I don’t see any threats of action or sanctions there. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4786 "2025-07-22T08:43:02Z")
Serious question: what would be some useful and effective sanctions? Tech exports? Nobody wants to see Israeli stores empty of food and medicine. But what would put real pressure on the Israeli economy and, therefore, the government? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4787 "2025-07-22T08:57:36Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Serious question: what would be some useful and effective sanctions? […] But what would put real pressure on the Israeli economy and, therefore, the government? Basically _everything_ [BDS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sanctions#Methods) advocates for. That’s why Israel govt. hates BDS, because if followed globally, it would be very, very effective, [as disinvestment was against Apartheid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during_apartheid#Aftermath). > Boycotts are facilitated by urging the public to avoid purchasing goods made by Israeli companies, divestment by urging banks, pension funds, international companies, etc. to stop doing business in Israel, and sanctions by pressuring governments to end military trade and free-trade agreements with Israel and to suspend Israel’s membership in international forums > [@DPRK](#): > > Nobody wants to see Israeli stores empty of food and medicine. That’s not going to happen - other than grain, Israel is very self-sufficient. And I’m OK with not sanctioning subsistence grain imports to them. Because deliberately starving people is the kind of barbaric genocidal action only practiced by the worst of humanity, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4788 "2025-07-22T11:41:09Z")
There are no targets of military value in Gaza. There is no organized resistance. There is no war. It’s time for the US to allow UN condemnation of Israel. And it is time to slow walk military support enough to get their attention. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4789 "2025-07-22T15:32:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I mean, nice words and all, _finally_, but I don’t see any threats of action or sanctions there. …I am, unfortunately, under no illusions about what that document means. It means they are trying to get ahead of the _story_. They know better than most of us that the deliberate starvation policy has reached the point of no return, that Israel are almost certainly not going to relent, and that a humanitarian catastrophe is inevitable, and they want to give the appearances that they disapprove. Because the UK government literally welcomed Israel’s air force chief just a few days ago. And reportedly sent another spy plane to Gaza just after releasing the statement. There isn’t a change in policy. Its business as usual. > [@DPRK](#): > > Nobody wants to see Israeli stores empty of food and medicine. But what would put real pressure on the Israeli economy and, therefore, the government? What I would suggest is to pretend you aren’t dealing with Israel. Let’s instead pretend it’s Iran. Iran has stopped all food from entering Israel. They’ve set up concentration zones and have forced the entire population into about 10% of the land. This morning, Iran raided the World Health Organisation in Tel Aviv and kidnapped one of the workers, forced the others to march to safety elsewhere with their families, and destroyed one of their warehouses. Short of military action: what sort of useful and effective sanctions do you think should be applied to Iran? Because whatever sanctions you think would be appropriate there, absolutely should be appropriate to put on Israel right now. And no, we don’t want to see Israeli stores empty of food and medicine. But people have started to die of starvation in Gaza right now. According to the MOH, at least 20 in the last 48 hours. Every single person I follow in Gaza right now is starving. Most talk about not having any food for days. Earlier, I talked about an AFP reporter who no longer has the ability to walk. Reports of people collapsing in the streets. Doctors fainting while performing surgery. And as for medicine: you know that it’s been like this in Gaza since February 2024, right? > [@](#): > > **Doctors across Gaza have described operating on patients without anaesthetic, turning people with chronic conditions away, and treating rotting wounds with limited medical supplies.** > > “Because of the shortage of painkillers we leave patients to scream for hours and hours,” one told the BBC. > > The World Health Organization (WHO) has described the state of healthcare in Gaza as being “beyond words”. > > … > > Doctors say they are struggling to work with limited medical supplies. “We cannot find a drop of oxygen,” one told the BBC. > > “We’re missing anaesthetics, supplies for the ICU, antibiotics and lastly painkillers,” said Dr al-Akkad. “There are a lot of people who were severely burnt… we don’t have any suitable painkillers for them.” > > One doctor confirmed that operations were going ahead without anaesthetic. > **[Gaza doctors: ‘We leave patients to scream for hours and hours’](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68331988)** > > Doctors in Gaza say the healthcare system is broken and they are operating on people without anaesthetic. This was over a year BEFORE the near total siege Israel have imposed on Gaza this year. It was “beyond words” back in 2024. Imagine what it is like right now. This isn’t a dig at you. But I’m still beyond shocked that people still don’t understand the scale of humanitarian disaster we are looking at here. On average, at least ten children are amputated [every single day](https://www.savethechildren.net/news/gaza-more-10-children-day-lose-limb-three-months-brutal-conflict). Many will be operated on without any painkillers. And it’s been that way for over a year and a half. It simply inconceivable that a global community that continues to fund, arm and support Israels actions in Gaza would _ever_ impose sanctions on Israel to the degree it would empty stores of food and medicine. It isn’t going to happen. It isn’t a realistic thing to be concerned about. That isn’t to say BDS wouldn’t be an effective global strategy. It’s just that IMHO the countries that mostly matter, like most of Europe, the US, etc, have very effectively targeted and attacked proponents of BDS, even in some cases outlawing them. But along with targeting arms sales, it’s probably the best place to start. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4790 "2025-07-22T17:46:19Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > even in some cases outlawing them. Yes, Trump has outlawed this to the extent he has been able to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4791 "2025-07-22T18:35:56Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Nobody wants to see Israeli stores empty of food and medicine. We certainly would not want to inconvenience Israelis. The friendly folks who criminalize the use of rain water by Palestinians. Those pesky Palestinians want to squander water on their family farms when it is badly needed for ‘settlement’ swimming pools. Let’s get our priorities straight. Netanyahu has made Gaza an Israeli problem. Only a majority of Israeli citizens can stop him. So far they are failing to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4792 "2025-07-22T20:05:11Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Let’s instead pretend it’s Iran. Iran has stopped all food from entering Israel. They’ve set up concentration zones and have forced the entire population into about 10% of the land. This morning, Iran raided the World Health Organisation in Tel Aviv and kidnapped one of the workers, forced the others to march to safety elsewhere with their families, and destroyed one of their warehouses. > > Short of military action Military action (though not a formal declaration of war) would be much simpler, more effective, and more likely given the massive economic, military, and political interest the U.S. has in Israel. We have substantial military assets in the region to stage a campaign. Some of the domestic U.S. support for Israel would be for humanitarian or Zionist purposes, and that would get media time, but I do not think that would be the primary or even secondary driver of U.S. policy in that hypothetical. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yes, Trump has outlawed this to the extent he has been able to do so. Some anti-BDS laws predate the Trump I presidency. For example, Florida started maintaining [an official blacklist](https://www.sbafla.com/media/mqodaonn/2025_06_10_-israel-scrutinized-companies-list-for-web.pdf) of companies who boycott Israel in 2016, notably it includes Unilever (brands: Dove soaps, Axe deodorant, Vaseline petrolium jelly, Ben & Jerry’s ice cream, Klondike ice cream, Breyers ice cream, Popsicle brand, etc). ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4793 "2025-07-22T23:52:44Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Some anti-BDS laws predate the Trump I presidency. …yeah, this isn’t just a Trump thing. > [@wiki](#): > > As of 2024, 38 states have passed bills and executive orders designed to discourage boycotts of Israel.[[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws#cite_note-JVL-6) Many of them have been passed with broad bipartisan support. This is a bipartisan thing. Both Republicans and Democrats. And that includes broad support from both parties in congress. > [@](#): > > The [U.S. Senate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Senate) passed S.1, which contained anti-boycott provisions, on 28 January 2019, by a vote of 74–19. The [U.S. House](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._House) passed a resolution condemning the boycott of Israel on 24 July 2019, by a vote of 398–17. They’ve never been able to “get it over the line.” But this isn’t a party-line thing. This is what Chuck Schumer had to say back in 2018: > [@Chuck Schumer](#): > > “We have to fight BDS with every bit of strength in our bones,” he said. “In my judgment, it is a modern version of anti-Semitism. Not just anti-Israel, anti-Semitism.” > **[Chuck Schumer tells Israeli Americans that bipartisanship is essential for...](https://www.jta.org/2018/04/18/politics/chuck-schumer-tells-israeli-americans-bipartisanship-essential-israel-support)** > > The Senate minority leader also said that the BDS movement targeting Israel poses an acute threat. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2025, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4794 "2025-07-23T00:55:20Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > We certainly would not want to inconvenience Israelis. The friendly folks who criminalize the use of rain water by Palestinians. Those pesky Palestinians want to squander water on their family farms when it is badly needed for ‘settlement’ swimming pools. Let’s get our priorities straight. I do not know exactly how much water is wasted in Israel, but normal rates are higher than in, say, the U.S. Why do you assume they are wasting so much water? Is water being illegally diverted from municipal and agricultural systems to fill up swimming pools? > [@](#): > > Netanyahu has made Gaza an Israeli problem. Only a majority of Israeli citizens can stop him. So far they are failing to do so. I do not think the “majority of Israeli citizens” give a shit about Gaza. But I am certain they care about their water bill, grocery bill, traffic jams, gas prices, their Amazon packages not arriving on time, basically whatever a random person in your town cares about, there is a good chance a random Israeli cares about it too. Which is why I asked which sanctions will put pressure on the Israeli economy. Also, if Netanyahu loses the support of the labor unions and they call for a strike, that would be that (well, it’s never so simple, but I doubt the government could survive a general strike). > [@Max\_S](#): > > Military action (though not a formal declaration of war) would be much simpler, more effective, and more likely given the massive economic, military, and political interest the U.S. has in Israel. To the extent the U.S. dictates to Israel what is what, I do not think the majority of Americans give a shit about Gaza, either. Surely even less than Israelis, some of whom live near Gaza, know people from Gaza, and have even been to Gaza. Not so much young people. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2025, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4795 "2025-07-23T01:48:43Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Is water being illegally diverted from municipal and agricultural systems to fill up swimming pools? [https://www.btselem.org/publications/202305\_parched](https://www.btselem.org/publications/202305_parched) > [@btselem](#): > > Israelis, including those living in settlements, use an average of 247 liters of water a day per person – three times the quantity used by Palestinians in the West Bank, which amounts to 82.4 liters a person. In Palestinian communities that are not hooked up to the water grid, average daily water consumption is a mere 26 liters per person, much like the average in disaster zones. > … > However, Israel acts as if has exclusive rights over all water sources in the territory between Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, and sole decision-making power over how to use them. Immediately after occupying the West Bank in 1967, Israel took over the Palestinian water sector and introduced sweeping bans and restrictions. It demanded the Palestinians obtain its approval to drill new wells, and used the new access gained to water sources, especially in the Jordan Valley, for its own ends. Israel connected all the settlements built in the West Bank, with the exception of the Jordan Valley, to the Israeli water grid. Water is supplied to settlements based on consumption indicators inside Israel, and the water supply for Israeli communities on both sides of the Green Line is managed as a single system. The Water Agreement entrenched Israel’s monopoly over water sources and cement its status as regulator and sole authority for strategic decisions concerning water. [https://www.btselem.org/publications/202305\_parched](https://www.btselem.org/publications/202305_parched) > [@merp](#): > > Severe drought conditions, only recently ameliorated by heavy winter rains, and the current hostilities have exacerbated the fundamental inequality in division of the scarce water resources of Israel-Palestine between Israelis and Palestinians. Water is becoming a weapon of war aimed at quelling Palestinian support for resistance to occupation. > > Water inequality and Israel’s use of restricted access to water as a weapon of suppression have been continuing components of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. From the seizure of the West Bank and Gaza in 1967 to the present day, Israeli water policies have discriminated against Palestinians by denying them equal utilization of shared water resources. Palestinian water consumption is significantly below the basic minimum recommended by the World Health Organization and many Palestinian communities lack access to piped water, while Israelis enjoy the luxury of swimming pools, green lawns and two showers a day, and support a thriving export agriculture through irrigation. > **[Basic Needs vs. Swimming Pools - MERIP](https://merip.org/2003/06/basic-needs-vs-swimming-pools/)** > > Severe drought conditions, only recently ameliorated by heavy winter rains, and the current hostilities have exacerbated the fundamental inequality in division of the scarce water resources of Israel-Palestine between Israelis and Palestinians. Water... > To the extent the U.S. dictates to Israel what is what, I do not think the majority of Americans give a shit about Gaza, either. Surely even less than Israelis, some of whom live near Gaza, know people from Gaza, and have even been to Gaza. Not so much young people. Considering the near unconditional support the US has given Israel (both the Trump AND the Biden administration) it really is time that Americans _started_ to give a shit about the atrocities its government are funding in their name. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2025, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4796 "2025-07-23T04:14:20Z")
…this propaganda is _insidious_. From the Jerusalem Post: > [@](#): > > Despite global claims, there is [no famine in Gaza](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-853858) as of yet, the IDF said on Tuesday. > > However, it cautioned, the [UN](https://www.jpost.com/tags/united-nations) and other international aid groups currently have a record 950 trucks sitting on the Gaza side of the border that they are failing to bring to Gazans. > … > A top IDF official met with leading UN bureaucrats regarding the issue on Tuesday, demanding to know how they could accuse Israel of causing famine in Gaza, which, again, has not happened yet but might shortly should the UN continue to abandon its trucks – while simultaneously leaving the aid trucks to sit there without distributing the food. > > According to the senior IDF official, **the UN bureaucrats sat quietly for at least 20 seconds, struggling to come up with a response.** Eventually, one of them said that they would make more of an effort to get the trucks moving again, the IDF reported. > **[IDF says no Gaza famine, UN withholding aid | The Jerusalem Post](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-861899)** > > The IDF admitted that aid in Gaza is at a dangerous point, but asserted that the UN needed to move its trucks to solve the issue. I’ll be honest, if I were there, and senior IDF officials were turning around and accusing ME of being the cause of famine in Gaza I might take a bit of a beat as well. Just a tad. Probably 20 seconds. Maybe longer. My jaw would literally drop. Imagine actually _publishing this_. As if it were some sort of objective observation. > [@](#): > > The IDF provided several reasons as to why the UN trucks have been sitting by the border. Some had to do with the UN’s refusal to abide by the IDF’s regulations about which products could go in and which could not, something that the IDF could alleviate by lowering its standards temporarily. Just “alleviate it” already. Let in the tents. The baby formula. The feminine hygiene products. The water, fuel, medicine. > [@](#): > > But other reasons concerned the UN’s unwillingness to move through certain areas that the IDF said were secure, but that the UN did not take its word for it, refusing to advance. Well, yes: it’s been well documented that the routes the IDF say are secure are NOT secure. They are controlled by Israeli backed militias and gangs and UN convoys are regularly attacked and hijacked on these routes. > [@](#): > > Regarding the many photos and videos being distributed of sick Palestinian children with clear signs of malnutrition, the army said that many of these children have diseases unrelated to the state of food in Gaza, and that others are the same child being reused in different contexts. There will come a point where there will be so many dead Palestinian children from hunger that these lies won’t work any more. But sadly, we are not at that point. > [@](#): > > First, it categorizes how many calories of food are on each truck and cross-references this to around how many Palestinians are in one area or another. This is absolutely _sick_. And shame on the Jerusalem Post for publishing this garbage without significant push back. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2025, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4797 "2025-07-23T04:25:15Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > To the extent the U.S. dictates to Israel what is what, I do not think the majority of Americans give a shit about Gaza, either. I doubt the majority of Americans even know where Israel is. Maybe a slim majority could point to it on a map. Maybe. ETA: [Pew](https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/legacy-pdf/11-7-11-Knowledge-Release.pdf), 2011, n=1168 US adults \> 18 years old. [![](https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2011/11/11-7-11-2.png) ](https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2011/11/11-7-11-2.png) ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=232) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=234)