# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 235
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2025, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4818 "2025-07-24T15:25:28Z")
A cite that Hamas still controls Palestinians in Gaza and shows no signs of ending the war? Show me a cite that Hamas soldiers are starving. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2025, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4819 "2025-07-24T15:27:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Hamas controls the ability to safely distribute it. … Israel has complete control over what is and isn’t allowed into the strip. Once it is allowed through one of the entry points, the respective aid agency takes over. They are only allowed to travel on approved routes. For example: from the latest Gaza flash update: > [@Flash Update](#): > > - Between 16 and 22 July, out of 75 attempts to coordinate planned aid movements with Israeli authorities across the Gaza Strip, nearly 23 per cent were denied. An additional 21 per cent were initially accepted but faced impediments, including blocks or delays on the ground potentially resulting in missions being aborted or partially accomplished. Another 31 per cent were fully facilitated, and the remaining 25 per cent had to be withdrawn by the organizers for logistical, operational, or security reasons. All these include 29 attempts to coordinate aid movements in or to northern Gaza, of which 28 per cent (eight) were facilitated, 28 per cent (eight) were denied, 21 per cent (six) faced impediments, and 24 per cent (seven) were withdrawn. In southern Gaza, out of 46 attempts, 33 per cent (15) were facilitated, 19 per cent (nine) were denied, 22 per cent (10) faced impediments and 26 per cent (12) were withdrawn. > **[Humanitarian Situation Update #307 | Gaza Strip | United Nations Office for...](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/humanitarian-situation-update-307-gaza-strip)** > > People in Gaza continue to face death, injury, displacement and trauma amid continued hostilities and the slow erosion of conditions essential for survival, including adequate access to food, water, health care and shelter. The process is _strictly controlled by Israel._ At no stage of the process does Hamas control the ability to “safely distribute it.” Often in the past Gazan police and security forces (yes, they are Hamas, but everyone with any authority is in Hamas, but not everyone in Hamas are terrorists) have provided escort and security. But they were never in control. Everything from access to the routes were directed by Israeli authorities, with the respective aid agencies in charge once the routes were approved. And their ability to do so though diminished during the “war” as many, especially senior police, were targeted and assassinated. > [@Magiver](#): > > Show me a cite that Hamas soldiers are starving. Why on earth would we need to do that? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4820 "2025-07-24T15:31:10Z")
Israel is engaging in colonial expansion. Palestinians are just road kill. With luck they may end up with reservations under the guise of states. The Gaza incident is a major set back for Israel. We were on the cusp of an Israel, US, Saudi alliance that could have changed the direction of mid-east politics. Netanyahu and Hamas contrived to sink that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4821 "2025-07-24T16:00:31Z")
That’s irrelevant. It’s a fact that Israel controls the flow of food into Gaza. There are hundreds of reports that they’re not letting in enough food, and therefore Gazans are starving. That’s within Israel’s control and responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2025, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4822 "2025-07-24T16:25:44Z")
Israel, in Gaza is still using WW2 strategy - mass strategic attack capability and scorched earth defense. Israel is not large enough to sustain a war on that basis. When Israel consumes and cleanses the West Bank, Gaza, Southern Lebanon and tastey parts of Syria and Jordan, it will still be smaller than the US Navaho reservation. It lacks the population to occupy and govern even that small an area. Israel exists because of the military weakness of its’ enemies. But the military world just changed. FPV drones can destroy large bombers on the ground. They can be air dropped across borders and carried by smugglers. The Ukraine raid on Russian strategic bombers was just the beginning. Gaza demonstrates that without an air force, Israel is a sitting duck for land invasion. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2025, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4823 "2025-07-24T18:24:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I wonder how much starvation would be enough for supporters of the IDF to decide that something is wrong with the way that Israel is allowing and distributing aid? Nazi Germany did not implement the Holocaust by allowing the public to perceive the situation in human terms. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4824 "2025-07-25T00:50:21Z")
Nazi Germany and it’s people were pounded to dust until surrender. The Allies didn’t spend time worrying about feeding them. Israel, on the other hand, has been engaged in the process of feeding Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4825 "2025-07-25T00:53:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Allies didn’t spend time worrying about feeding them. …which is why we now have the Geneva Conventions and International Humanitarian Law. > [@Magiver](#): > > Israel, on the other hand, has been engaged in the process of feeding Palestinians. And they have so far proven to be utterly incapable of doing so at the sort of scale and safety one would expect of a humanitarian organisation. They need to step aside and leave it to the people with decades of experience to do the job. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4826 "2025-07-25T00:54:38Z")
Nazi Germany was actually an existential threat to the rest of Europe. Gaza and even Hamas are not remotely existential threats to Israel. Right now Israel has all the power in Gaza, and they are wielding that power to prevent Gazans from getting enough food. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4827 "2025-07-25T01:07:48Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And they have so far proven to be utterly incapable of doing so at the sort of scale and safety one would expect of a humanitarian organisation. It’s odd that since Hamas started this war in 2023 there has been a constant litany of mass death predictions from starvation. This hasn’t come to pass. The war can end tomorrow with the surrender of Hamas. Their plan to drag in other Arab nations failed and that’s likely because of Iran’s involvement. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4828 "2025-07-25T01:10:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Gaza and even Hamas are not remotely existential threats to Israel. That’s simply not true. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4829 "2025-07-25T01:25:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s odd that since Hamas started this war in 2023 there has been a constant litany of mass death predictions from starvation. …it isn’t odd at all. Why would you think it was odd? Israel has been using starvation as a weapon since the beginning. See the HRW report from December 2023. > **[Israel: Starvation Used as Weapon of War in Gaza](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/israel-starvation-used-weapon-war-gaza)** > > The Israeli government is using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare in the occupied Gaza Strip, which is a war crime. Israeli forces are deliberately blocking the delivery of water, food, and fuel, while willfully impeding humanitarian... The language used in reports like this are typically things like “According to the WFP, there is a serious risk of starvation and famine in Gaza.” And that was true at the time, was it not? > [@Magiver](#): > > This hasn’t come to pass. It’s here _now_. The deaths from malnutrition stayed at a constant of about 35 deaths _right up until this week_. It’s now 115. We are at the start of a death wave. And because for many its gone too far, even if we flooded Gaza with food right now, it would be too late for many of them. That “litany of mass death predictions from starvation” was intended to _stop_ what we are seeing right now. The problem isn’t that the mass death predictions were being made: but that people weren’t _listening_. And once again: the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation and Israel are fundamentally incapable of providing the require aid (not just food) for the Palestinians in Gaza. They need to step aside and let the humanitarian agencies do their job. > [@Magiver](#): > > The war can end tomorrow with the surrender of Hamas. Hamas have agreed to release all of the hostages and to step down from power. This would have been what happened if Israel didn’t break the ceasefire a few months ago. Hamas are not what prevents humanitarian aid from flooding Gaza right now. It doesn’t require the war to end. This is a _deliberate decision by the Israeli government_. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4830 "2025-07-25T03:56:47Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Hamas have agreed to release all of the hostages and to step down from power. uh huh. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4831 "2025-07-25T04:05:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > uh huh. …uh huh what? And you agree that we can flood Gaza with aid without having to end the war? That we can just do that right now? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4832 "2025-07-25T12:23:04Z")
[https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/usaid-analysis-found-no-evidence-massive-hamas-theft-gaza-aid-2025-07-25/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/usaid-analysis-found-no-evidence-massive-hamas-theft-gaza-aid-2025-07-25/) Surprise surprise, it appears Hamas is _not_ actually stealing significant amounts of aid for Gazans. So the starvation and lack of medical care in Gaza is due to the actions of the Israeli government and IDF. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4833 "2025-07-25T13:33:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Surprise surprise, it appears Hamas is _not_ actually stealing significant amounts of aid for Gazans. Surprise surprise, it’s actually not nearly that simple, per your own source: > [@](#): > > The study noted a limitation: because Palestinians who receive aid cannot be vetted, it was possible that U.S.-funded supplies went to administrative officials of Hamas, the Islamist rulers of Gaza. > One source familiar with the study also cautioned that the absence of reports of widespread aid diversion by Hamas “does not mean that diversion has not occurred.” > [@](#): > > “The majority of incidents could not be definitively attributed to a specific actor,” said another slide. “Partners often largely discovered the commodities had been stolen in transit without identifying the perpetrator.” So they have a bunch of aid that was stolen without USAID thenselves ever identifying who stole it. That is certainly not evidence that the aid was _not_ taken by Hamas. It was taken by _someone_, and Hamas is certainly the most capable group of carrying something like that out. That USAID doesn’t have (or didn’t choose to present in this particular report) evidence that Hamas is responsible for those thefts is not in and of itself evidence that other US agencies or the Israelis are wrong about who they identified as the perpetrator. It just means that USAID didn’t have that info. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4834 "2025-07-25T13:35:02Z")
I think your confused about who the Nazis are here. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4835 "2025-07-25T14:07:44Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > uh huh what? Hamas agreeing to surrender, return of the hostages, and stepping down from power. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4836 "2025-07-25T14:19:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Hamas agreeing to surrender, return of the hostages, and stepping down from power. …yes. What about it? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4837 "2025-07-25T14:22:14Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think your confused about who the Nazis are here. Iran’s religious rulers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=234) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=236)