# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 237
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4858 "2025-07-26T01:09:37Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > First, it categorizes how many calories of food are on each truck and cross-references this to around how many Palestinians are in one area or another. …I shared this earlier in the thread. If Israels goal isn’t to limit food into Gaza, it wouldn’t be categorising _how many calories of food are on each truck and cross-references this to around how many Palestinians are in one area or another_. You don’t count calories unless you _intend to restrict the amount of food allowed into any given area_. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4859 "2025-07-26T01:14:16Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Thank God for that, or we might think Israel was doing something nefarious. …they were. It’s literally _right there in what you quoted_. Aid groups have _established routes_ and _safe corridors_. They keep asking Israeli authorities to use those routes: instead they get directed into areas controlled by Israeli backed gangs. This is as nefarious as you can get. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4860 "2025-07-26T03:53:47Z")
…the original reporting is from the BBC, but a summary is here: > > [@](#): > > NEW: Former U.S. Green Beret Anthony Aguilar says he routinely witnessed Israeli forces (IDF) firing artillery tank rounds and mortar rounds into crowds of unarmed, starving Palestinians at GHF aid sites in Gaza. > > “I witnessed war crimes,” the GHF security contractor told the BBC, calling the attacks “indiscriminate” and “the worst brutality” he’s seen in his life. The BBC report: > **[Former US Green Beret says Israel committed war crimes at Gaza food...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72aZhsNMOWk%2F)** > > A former US veteran who was employed at a food distribution site in Gaza has accused members of the Israel Defence Forces and American colleagues of delibera... Finally, a contractor goes on the record. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4861 "2025-07-26T08:40:51Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Losses indirectly attributed to Israeli military included cases where they compelled aid groups to use delivery routes with high risks of theft or looting, ignoring requests for alternative routes, the analysis said. > > Thank God for that, or we might think Israel was doing something nefarious. Wait, that’s supposed to sound not nefarious? I’m lost. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4862 "2025-07-26T09:53:54Z")
Considering this eyewitness report by a former US special forces member, @Magiver, are you in favor, or do you oppose, the IDF shooting into crowds of unarmed starving civilians trying to get food? ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4863 "2025-07-26T13:25:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If the only way to disarm Hamas militarily is to destroy nearly all buildings in Hamas and starve and murder tens of thousands of Gazan civilians, then it’s probably not worth it. This Israeli government is sowing the seeds of decades more bloodshed and international isolation, which, IMO, will be far, far more damaging to Israel than even Hamas. Well, and this is the odd bit, isn’t it? I get Israel’s idea that Hamas must be destroyed, but in the end Hamas is an idea that will reconstitute in no small part because of the suffering of the people in Gaza. I seriously can’t understand what Israel thinks the end to this is. And as for Hamas stealing the aid, as I’ve heard a number of humanitarian agencies point out, the way to counter that is to send enough food so that the value of the food drops. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4864 "2025-07-26T13:31:46Z")
nm. wrong thread, thought this was the Pit one. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4865 "2025-07-26T13:59:37Z")
There’s no coherent strategy, unless it’s meant to be ethnic cleansing. The Israeli government’s actions are completely incompatible with any sort of long term plan for peace and human rights. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4866 "2025-07-26T14:32:05Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > For the power and thus control they gain over the populace by distributing it. Can you think of a group that would do this for the power and thus control by _not_ distributing it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2025, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4867 "2025-07-27T19:50:03Z")
From Haaretz: [https://archive.ph/Bj7nM](https://archive.ph/Bj7nM) > Over 1,000 have died so far while crowding around to get food, since late May, most of them [from Israel Defense Forces gunfire](https://archive.ph/o/Bj7nM/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-27/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-soldiers-ordered-to-shoot-deliberately-at-unarmed-gazans-waiting-for-humanitarian-aid/00000197-ad8e-de01-a39f-ffbe33780000). > > What happens to those who can’t make it to the trucks or the distribution centers? What about the women, the disabled, the sick, the elderly? What about the unlucky? > > They are starving to death. This is entirely on Israel’s watch, and under their control. Controlled starvation; controlled shootings at aid sites. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4868 "2025-07-28T15:28:17Z")
Thought this was interesting: > **[Trump says he does not endorse Netanyahu’s claim there is no starvation in Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/28/trump-netanyahu-starvation-gaza)** > > US president says he has told Israel ‘maybe they have to do it a different way’ before bilateral talks with Keir Starmer Mostly because neither Trump nor his base are particularly sympathetic to the Palestinians, and Israel tends to be a major area of support for them. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2025, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4869 "2025-07-29T01:53:09Z")
> **[Netanyahu proposes to annex parts of Gaza in attempt to appease far-right...](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-07-28/ty-article/netanyahu-proposes-to-annex-gaza-in-attempt-to-appease-far-right-minister/00000198-525a-dc50-a9bf-ff7ba06f0000)** > > Under the Proposed Plan, Israel Will Gradually Begin Annexing Parts of Gaza if Hamas Does Not Agree to a Cease-fire. Netanyahu Told Ministers the Plan Is Supported by the Trump Administration > Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is expected to propose to the political-security cabinet a plan to annex areas in the Gaza Strip, in an attempt to keep Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich in his government. According to the plan, Israel will declare that it is giving Hamas a few days to agree to a cease-fire, and if not, will begin annexing areas of the Strip. > **[Gazan city of Khan Yunis is almost completely leveled, satellite images show](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/07/28/gazan-city-of-khan-yunis-is-almost-completely-leveled-satellite-images-show_6743817_4.html)** > > Israel's ground offensive has caused massive destruction in the Gaza Strip. Recent satellite photos show that the Israeli military has nearly completely razed the second-largest city in the Palestinian enclave. > The most significant destruction has occurred in the neighboring towns of Bani Suheila and Abasan al-Kabira, where most buildings have been destroyed, according to [the Israeli newspaper _Haaretz_](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2025-07-23/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israels-destruction-of-gaza-almost-nothing-is-left-of-khan-yunis-photos-show/00000198-3625-d5d4-a9fd-7e67d0540000?lts=1753349911980). Another town, Khuza’a, has been completely leveled. > > “It appears that most of the destruction was done by bulldozers and the like,” _Haaretz_ wrote, adding that, in recent months, the Israeli “military has greatly accelerated the pace of destruction in southern Gaza, using private contractors that earn a profit of thousands of shekels per building razed.” > > In recent weeks, the demolitions of homes, along with aerial bombardments, have been “the only operational activity that has been carried out systematically” by the Israeli army in Gaza, [according to _Haaretz_](https://www.haaretz.co.il/opinions/2025-07-06/ty-article-opinion/.highlight/00000197-df7c-d2cb-a79f-ff7f9dff0000). “Hundreds of bulldozers, excavators, and armored Israeli Caterpillar D9 bulldozers continue their efforts to make Gaza uninhabitable for years to come.” ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2025, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4870 "2025-07-29T11:17:40Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > [Netanyahu Proposes to Annex Parts of Gaza in Attempt to Appease Far-right Minister if Hamas Does Not Agree to a Deal - Israel News - Haaretz.com](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-07-28/ty-article/netanyahu-proposes-to-annex-gaza-in-attempt-to-appease-far-right-minister/00000198-525a-dc50-a9bf-ff7ba06f0000) To quote Gomer Pyle “Surprise, Surprise. Surprise!” ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2025, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4871 "2025-07-29T11:24:56Z")
How much resistance is Hamas putting up at this point? Presumably they still control parts of Gaza, since not all the hostages have been returned. Is there any actual fighting going on? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2025, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4872 "2025-07-29T11:36:28Z")
There have been 5 IDF losses in the last 11 days. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2025, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4873 "2025-07-29T16:40:36Z")
Based on polling, it appears the Democratic party consensus to support Israel is dead or dying: > **[Peter Sterne (@petersterne.com)](https://bsky.app/profile/petersterne.com/post/3lv4ggk7e7k2c)** > > It seems the pro-Israel consensus among Democrats is well and truly dead at this point. Dem primary voters prefer candidates who refuse to travel to Israel (by net +45%) and back a bill to end military aid to Israel (by net +61%).... The next Democratic president will probably try to end military aid to Israel, barring a reversal of this trend. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2025, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4874 "2025-07-30T00:21:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The next Democratic president will probably try to end military aid to Israel, barring a reversal of this trend. …with respect, I very much doubt it. For starters, these trends were there _before_ the last election. They were just either ignored or recontextualised by both the party and the media. What matters isn’t what the polling or the consensus says. What matters is what they do. And if this interview says anything, it’s very much likely they aren’t going to do anything. > Its an interview with Democrat Sen. Elissa Slotkin. She’s so hopelessly lost in her talking points she pivots from “she can’t do anything” to a private initiative to maybe possibly get baby food onto a non-negotiable list. This is the Democrats in a nutshell. The next Democratic president won’t try to end military aid to Israel. It would take a complete _overhaul_ of the party for that to happen. And I don’t see that being in the cards. Even AOC voted for the latest round of military funding. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2025, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4875 "2025-07-30T00:27:04Z")
Ultimately, the party is its voters, not its office holders. We’ll see, but if Democratic primary voters want Democrats who promise to cutoff military aid to Israel, then that’s what Democratic primary voters will get in the next election. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2025, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4876 "2025-07-30T00:37:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Ultimately, the party is its voters, not its office holders. Eventually, yes. I think you and **B\_B** are both partly right, in that the sentiments of the rank and file can undergo a major shift long before it’s meaningfully reflected in policy decisions. Takes quite a while to get that ship turned around. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2025, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4877 "2025-07-30T00:39:27Z")
It didn’t take long with Trump. He changed his party in one election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=236) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=238)