# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 242
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4958 "2025-08-01T14:21:15Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > We know what the polling suggests. > > A [Gallup poll](https://news.gallup.com/poll/692948/u.s.-back-israel-military-action-gaza-new-low.aspx) released this week found that just 32% of US adults support Israel’s military actions in Gaza — a record low since the war was launched in response to Hamas’ October 7, 2023, terror attack. The poll also found the strongest partisan split yet: Support among those who identify themselves as Republicans remained strong, at 71%. **But just 8% of Democrats and 25% of independents say they back Israel’s military actions.** This seems a tad disingenous. First, “not supporting Israel’s military actions” doesn’t necessarily mean “supporting cutting off military aid to Israel”. I feel sure if that if pollsters were specifically asking “Would you be in favor of preventing Israel from defending its own civilian population, while leaving its capacity to carry out offensive operations against Palestinian civilians intact?”, a large majority would reply “What, are you fucking crazy?” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4959 "2025-08-01T14:26:23Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > This seems a tad disingenous. …it was in response to about how using the g-word _may lose more support than it gains_. That particular response was addressing that: **not** talking about cutting off military aid to Israel. It’s not disingenuous at all. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4960 "2025-08-01T14:32:36Z")
OK, so you’re not trying to claim that only 32% of Americans would oppose the MTG amendment? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4961 "2025-08-01T14:34:00Z")
Well, if Israel were feeding starving children rather than slaughtering them with machine guns, their claims that kicking UNRWA out was about fighting Hamas would seem a lot more credible. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4962 "2025-08-01T14:34:30Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > This seems a tad disingenous. First, “not supporting Israel’s military actions” doesn’t necessarily mean “supporting cutting off military aid to Israel”. I feel sure if that if pollsters were specifically asking “Would you be in favor of preventing Israel from defending its own civilian population, while leaving its capacity to carry out offensive operations against Palestinian civilians intact?”, a large majority would reply “What, are you fucking crazy?” Something else about some of these polls, I heard a pretty pro-Israel pundit talk about how 'do you have more sympathy for Palestinians or Israelis’ is kind of a bad question. He pointed out that even for people on Israel’s side, aside from the Israelis still in captivity, it’s pretty obvious that Palestinians are in the situation that justifies more _sympathy_. Israel is winning the war, including smashing up Hamas’ allies Hezbollah, the Houthis, and even Iran. But “who engenders more sympathy” is a different question than “which side in the war do you support”. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4963 "2025-08-01T14:35:34Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > OK, so you’re not trying to claim that only 32% of Americans would oppose the MTG amendment? …if I were intending to claim this, I would have said this. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4964 "2025-08-01T14:36:26Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Well, if Israel were feeding starving children rather than slaughtering them with machine guns The GHF has delivered something like 100 million meals so far. They should continue to up their capacity, but the idea that Israel is just slaughtering people rather than feeding them is very clearly untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4965 "2025-08-01T14:37:37Z")
Well, why did you post polling generically about “support for Israel’s military actions” in the context of a discussion specifically about the MTG amendment, then? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4966 "2025-08-01T14:39:00Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > in the context of a discussion specifically about the MTG amendment, then? …it was in the context of the quote I was directly responding to, which was further in the context of something else we were discussing. Just go read the exchange. The context is right there. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4967 "2025-08-01T14:50:09Z")
…the amount of meals the GHF have distributed is simply yet another unverified claim. What matters is this: > **[IPC Gaza Strip Food Insecurity and Malnutrition Alert](https://www.who.int/news/item/29-07-2025-ipc-gaza-strip-food-insecurity-and-malnutrition-alert)** > > The Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC), of which WHO is a member, today issued a Food Insecurity and Malnutrition Alert for the Gaza Strip. > [@WHO](#): > > The Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC) has issued a stark warning today that the worst-case scenario of Famine is now unfolding in the Gaza Strip. Amid relentless conflict, mass displacement, severely restricted humanitarian access, and the collapse of essential services, including healthcare, the crisis has reached an alarming and deadly turning point. > > Mounting evidence shows that widespread starvation, malnutrition, and disease are driving a rise in hunger-related deaths. **Latest data indicates that Famine thresholds have been reached for food consumption in most of the Gaza Strip and for acute malnutrition in Gaza City.** Bolding mine. It doesn’t matter if GHF have claimed to have delivered 100 million meals or 100 BILLION meals. It simply isn’t enough. It isn’t the right type of food. It isn’t being distributed efficiently or fairly. And hundreds of thousands of people are unable to access it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4968 "2025-08-01T18:18:24Z")
> **[Israeli author David Grossman says his country is committing genocide in Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/01/david-grossman-israel-committing-genocide-gaza)** > > Writer says for many years he has refused to use word but now must ‘with immense pain and with a broken heart’ > “I ask myself: how did we get here?” the celebrated writer and peace activist told the Italian daily La Repubblica in an interview published on Friday. > > “How did we come to be accused of genocide? Just uttering that word – ‘genocide’ – in reference to [Israel](https://www.theguardian.com/world/israel), to the Jewish people, that alone, the fact that this association can even be made, should be enough to tell us that something very wrong is happening to us.” > > Grossman said that for many years he had refused to use the term. “But now I can’t help myself – not after what I’ve read in the papers, not after the images I’ve seen, not after speaking with people who’ve been there. This word is an avalanche: once you say it, it just gets bigger, like an avalanche. And it adds even more destruction and suffering,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4969 "2025-08-02T01:06:03Z")
…the latest from Human Rights Watch: > [@](#): > > [Israeli](https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/north-africa/israel/palestine) forces at the sites of a new [US-backed](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cev41em3r9lo) aid distribution system in Gaza have routinely opened fire on [starving](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/palestinians-gaza-continue-be-killed-starvation-or-bullets-israeli-military-while-trying-access-food-enar) Palestinian civilians in acts that amount to serious violations of international law and war crimes, Human Rights Watch said today. > > [Mass casualty](https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/05/1163756) incidents have taken place on a near-[daily](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/briefing-jonathan-whittall-head-ocha-opt-journalists-deir-al-balah-gaza-strip#:~:text=Almost%20every%20day%20there%20are%20mass%20casualties.) basis at or near the four sites operated by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF), which operates in coordination with the Israeli military. At least 859 Palestinians have been killed while attempting to obtain aid at GHF sites between May 27 and July 31, 2025, most by the Israeli military, [according to the United Nations](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/killings-palestinians-seeking-food-gaza-continue-starvation-deepens). The dire humanitarian situation is a direct result of Israel’s use of [starvation](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/09/gaza-israels-imposed-starvation-deadly-children) of civilians as a [weapon of war](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/israel-starvation-used-weapon-war-gaza)—a war crime —as well as Israel’s continued intentional deprivation of [aid](https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/03/05/israel-again-blocks-gaza-aid-further-risking-lives) and [basic services](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/07/gaza-israel-flouts-world-court-orders), ongoing actions that amount to the crime against humanity of extermination, and acts of genocide. > > … > > Rather than delivering food to people at hundreds of accessible sites throughout Gaza, the new mechanism [requires](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/over-170-charities-call-end-deadly-new-gaza-aid-distribution-system-2025-07-01/) Palestinians to [trek](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/over-170-ngos-call-for-end-to-israeli-controlled-deadly-aid-distribution-in-gaza/3618845) across dangerous and destroyed terrain. According to five witnesses, Israeli forces [control](https://apnews.com/article/palestinians-israel-gaza-contractors-aid-distribution-fe27f3ea83e06a09d66424eed7a5d56f) the [movement](https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/israelopt-whistleblowers-say-us-contractors-at-aid-distribution-sites-in-gaza-are-firing-live-ammunition-at-palestinians-seeking-aid/) of Palestinians to the sites through the use of [live](https://apnews.com/article/palestinians-israel-gaza-contractors-aid-distribution-fe27f3ea83e06a09d66424eed7a5d56f) ammunition. Inside the sites, the distribution of aid itself is an uncontrolled “[free-for-all](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/7/21/what-is-the-kill-zone-people-in-gaza-need-to-cross-to-receive-aid#:~:text=He%20described%20scenes,each%20other%E2%80%99s%20arms.),” as Aguilar described it, that often leaves the most vulnerable and weakest people with nothing. Human Rights Watch analyzed announcements made on GHF’s Facebook page of 105 distributions across the 4 sites and found that 54 distribution windows were under 20 minutes long and 20 distributions were announced as finished before their official opening time had begun. > > … > > On the way, he said, an Israeli tank opened fire on him and others as they were walking towards the site: “If you stopped walking, or did anything they didn’t want, they fired at you.” This part seems important: > [@](#): > > The aid mechanism has failed to address mass starvation in Gaza, Human Rights Watch said. Counsel for GHF said they have delivered 95 million meals in Gaza, as of July 28. However, even at full capacity at the four sites, the GHF scheme is only capable of providing about 60 trucks of food per day, according to Aguilar, as compared to the [600 trucks per day](https://www.unrwa.org/resources/reports/unrwa-situation-report-161-situation-gaza-strip-and-west-bank-including-east-jerusalem) that entered Gaza under the UN-led aid scheme during the ceasefire in early 2025. It lead me to wonder how the GHF were actually defining a meal. From Wikipedia: > [@wikipedia](#): > > The GHF says that each box contains 42,500 calories, and feeds 5.5 people for 3.5 days. > … > GHF originally calculated meals to contain 1,750 [calories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie) (7,300 [kilojoules](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilojoule)), and this calculation was raised to 2,500 calories (10,000 kJ) in June; the [World Health Organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization), [UNICEF](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNICEF), and [World Food Programme](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Food_Programme) set a standard of 2,100 calories (8,800 kJ) per day in emergency situations. So when you hear GHF talk about “meals”, don’t imagine individual portions per person. It’s a calorie count. And that lead me down a rabbit hole of just how long Israel have been counting calories as a means of control in Gaza. From 2012: > [@Haaretz](#): > > The “red lines” document calculates the minimum number of calories needed by every age and gender group in Gaza, then uses this to determine the quantity of staple foods that must be allowed into the Strip every day, as well as the number of trucks needed to carry this quantity. On average, the minimum worked out to 2,279 calories per person per day, which could be supplied by 1,836 grams of food, or 2,575.5 tons of food for the entire population of Gaza. > > **Bringing this quantity into the Strip would require 170.4 truckloads per day, five days a week.** > > From this quantity, the document’s authors then deducted 68.6 truckloads to account for the food produced locally in Gaza mainly vegetables, fruit, milk and meat. The documents note that the Health Ministry’s data about various products includes the weight of the package (about 1 to 5 percent of the total weight) and that “The total amount of food takes into consideration ‘sampling’ by toddlers under the age of 2 (adds 34 tons per day to the general population).” > > From this total, 13 truckloads were deducted to adjust for the “culture and experience” of food consumption in Gaza, though the document does not explain how this deduction was calculated. > > While this adjustment actually led to a higher figure for sugar (five truckloads, compared to only 2.6 under the Health Ministry’s original model), > it reduced the quantity of fruits and vegetables (18 truckloads, compared to 28.5), milk (12 truckloads instead of 21.1), and meat and poultry (14 instead of 17.2). > > **Altogether, therefore, COGAT concluded that Israel needed to allow 131 truckloads of food and other essential products into Gaza every day** (via the “back to back” system, in which goods are transferred from an Israeli truck to a Palestinian one at the border). > **[2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve](https://www.haaretz.com/2012-10-17/ty-article/.premium/israels-gaza-quota-2-279-calories-a-day/0000017f-e0f2-d7b2-a77f-e3f755550000)** > > State forced to release 'red lines' document for food consumption in the coastal Strip following legal battle; official: state has right to determine who it assists. The original calculations made “deductions” because of locally produced food. However, we can’t take that into account now though, because the farms have been razed, and Palestinians are forbidden from fishing from the ocean. So using the original numbers, the IDF calculated they needed 850 trucks per week to feed Gaza. If we assume the 60 trucks providing food happens seven days, the GHF is only providing _420 trucks_. Not even _half_ the amount needed to feed Gaza. This doesn’t account for what other agencies are bringing in, which estimates suggests averages about 70 trucks per day. [How will Israel’s ‘humanitarian pauses’ affect Gaza’s starvation crisis? | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/27/how-will-israels-military-pauses-affect-gazas-starvation-crisis#:~:text=%E2%80%9CWe%20have%20to%20go%20back,the%20Unrwa%20director%20of%20communications). But this is just _calories_. It doesn’t account for distribution. It doesn’t account for how much of the food provided by the GHF isn’t usable because it requires water: and the GHF doesn’t provide _water_. > [@BBC](#): > > “In essence, this basket provides a full stomach but an empty diet,” Prof Stuart Gordon said. “The biggest flaw is what’s missing… This (is) very much a ‘first aid’ food basket, designed to stop the haemorrhaging effect that is acute hunger.” > > “A diet like this over weeks would lead to ‘hidden hunger’, increasing the risk of diseases like anaemia and scurvy” he said. > > … > > For those who manage to get hold of a box, they still need water and fuel to cook the dried goods, despite the [water crisis](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68969239) and severe fuel shortage facing Gaza. > **[​​What is inside the GHF food box being distributed in Gaza](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd787er1qz4o)** > > BBC Verify examines the meals handed out to Gazans - and why their nutritional value is questioned by some experts. The Humanitarian agencies say they need between 4-600 trucks daily at the very least. At the moment, it averages at only about 130 trucks per day. It’s woefully inefficient. So when you hear numbers like “100 million meals”, remember that isn’t actual meals distributed or consumed. It’s a _calorie count_. Of things, that includes _dried pasta_. All very scientific. Just math. It’s how Israel have _manufactured consent for famine_. (Disclaimer: maths was never my strong point. If someone could check it for me, I would hate to spread misinformation) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4970 "2025-08-02T17:14:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s no coherent strategy, unless it’s meant to be ethnic cleansing. The strategy of Iran/Hamas was to garner the support of Islamic countries. And they succeeded. [New York Times July 31, 2025](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/31/world/middleeast/hamas-arab-states-palestinians.html) # Arab States Call for Hamas to Disarm Amid Push for a Palestinian State the 22 member nations of the Arab League have united in their condemnation of Hamas for the Oct 7 attack. They’ve additionally called for Hamas to lay down its weapons, release all hostages and end its rule of the Gaza Strip, ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4971 "2025-08-02T17:40:08Z")
None of this excuses Israel and the IDF for multiple atrocities, including shooting crowds of unarmed, starving civilians, including women and children, and disallowing enough food for Gaza, leading towards widespread starvation. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4972 "2025-08-02T19:53:14Z")
> **[Israel closes 88% of cases of alleged war crimes or abuse without charges –...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/02/idf-no-fault-conclusion-alleged-war-abuse-cases-report)** > > Conflict monitoring group Action on Armed Violence says Israel is seeking to create a ‘pattern of impunity’ Man, that’s some system of accountability from The World’s Most Moral Army. _Seven months_ for repeated assault - no, torture - of helpless bound prisoners. And that’s the _only_ jail sentence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4973 "2025-08-03T18:01:12Z")
Another prominent skeptic now considers the ongoing atrocities in Gaza genocide: > **[Why I changed my mind on the genocide charge against Israel](https://medium.com/@dov.waxman/why-i-changed-my-mind-on-the-genocide-charge-against-israel-897c9e043b9e)** > > For the past 21 months of horrific violence and heartbreaking suffering in the Gaza Strip, I’ve been wrestling with the contentious… I think we’ve reached a tipping point in terms of international public opinion about the war. It’s more and more undeniable that Israel’s policies and actions in Gaza are unconscionable. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2025, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4974 "2025-08-04T19:01:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think we’ve reached a tipping point in terms of international public opinion about the war. How is the opinion of a UCLA Professor a tipping point on international public opinion? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2025, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4975 "2025-08-04T19:22:09Z")
It’s not. I think we’ve reached a tipping point based on a shift in opinion polling around the world, and governments (aside from the US and Israel, so far) are reacting to this public opinion shift with things that, previously, appeared impossible – like recognizing the Palestinian state. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2025, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4976 "2025-08-04T21:53:00Z")
Looks like Netanyahu has found a plan that he likes. Is it “keep the war going and in fact make it even bigger”? You guessed it! > **[Netanyahu to urge ‘full conquest’ of Gaza as ceasefire talks reach an impasse...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/israel-considers-expanding-gaza-war-125033745.html)** > > Negotiations on a hostage and ceasefire deal in Gaza appear to be at an impasse, with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu leaning towards expanded military operations and Hamas demanding the humanitarian situation be addressed before it returns... ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2025, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/4977 "2025-08-04T22:12:22Z")
But the IDF defenders in the thread have insisted that Netanyahu has no control over the military and the cooler heads in actual control would never allow such a strategy! Who are we to believe? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=241) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=243)