# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 248
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5078 "2025-08-18T02:09:51Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …well, now you know. There were no Hamas command and control bunkers under hospitals in Gaza. Just because you said so doesn’t make it true. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5079 "2025-08-18T02:14:18Z")
No, but a preponderance of evidence sure leads one to lean in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5080 "2025-08-18T02:19:40Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Just because you said so doesn’t make it true. …if it were true the IDF would have released _dossiers_ of evidence. They’ve occupied every single hospital in Gaza _multiple_ times. Damaged all of them. Destroyed a few of them. Yet every time I’ve asked you for the dossiers you’ve linked to the same photos and video of near empty tunnels under Al-Shifa and a statistical handful of weapons. Where are the dossiers? Lets start with the Turkish Palestinian Friendship Hospital. It shut down because it ran out of fuel in November 2023. It was taken over and occupied by the IDF in 2024 and used as a military base. It was _demolished_ by the IDF in 2025. Why did they demolish the Turkish Palestinian Friendship Hospital? It was the only cancer hospital in the strip. The only people using hospitals as military bases in Gaza _were the IDF._ Every accusation is a confession. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5081 "2025-08-18T02:18:15Z")
I recall reading a couple months ago that Hamas’s top military commander was killed when the IDF bombed the UN hospital/school complex he was hiding under. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5082 "2025-08-18T02:36:12Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I recall reading a couple months ago that Hamas’s top military commander was killed when the IDF bombed the UN hospital/school complex he was hiding under. …I’m assuming you are talking about Mohammed Sinwar? Allegedly in airstrikes on and around European Hospital on the 13th of May this year? That also killed 28 other people? [There was no independent confirmation of the exact location of that tunnel.](https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/cql2wvnn7zgo) It wasn’t connected to the hospital. The IDF didn’t provide evidence it was _under_ the hospital. There were no warnings before the attacks on the hospital as required by International Humanitarian Law. So it was yet another _warcrime_. The IDF had already occupied the hospital multiple times. There were other options that _didn’t_ involve bombing the hospital killing dozens of people. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5083 "2025-08-18T02:43:54Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Yet every time I’ve asked you for the dossiers you’ve linked to the same photos and video of near empty tunnels under Al-Shifa and a statistical handful of weapons. > > Where are the dossiers? Why would I spend any sort of time digging up that sort of info when we both know exactly how you would respond: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > There was no independent confirmation of the exact location of that tunnel. You’re never going to accept any evidence I provide if it comes from the IDF. You insist that we find some mythical independent source in Gaza we are supposed to rely on. You try to tell me that Hamas members with a Qatari state media badge are an “independent” source. Yeah, I’m not buying that. I’ll stick with the IDF account. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5084 "2025-08-18T02:51:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You’re never going to accept any evidence I provide if it comes from the IDF. …nor should you. It wasn’t me that provided the fact check here: it was the BBC. Take it up with them. > [@Babale](#): > > Why would I spend any sort of time digging up that sort of info when we both know exactly how you would respond: Well, you can’t, because those dossiers don’t exist. And back to my question: why did they demolish the Turkish Palestinian Friendship Hospital? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5085 "2025-08-18T03:01:15Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You’re never going to accept any evidence I provide if it comes from the IDF. You insist that we find some mythical independent source in Gaza we are supposed to rely on. So are you backhandedly admitting that there no independent confirmation? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5086 "2025-08-18T03:04:56Z")
“I would gladly show you, but you would only…” is nothing more than admission of defeat from someone who wants the rest of us to believe that that this is some sort of private conversation, and not a public display. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5087 "2025-08-18T03:07:42Z")
Yeah, but I want to see if he will admit it or just continue with the lampshading. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5088 "2025-08-18T03:10:28Z")
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant. Well, not really a desert. They’ll be some nice subdivisions coming in eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5089 "2025-08-18T03:16:23Z")
I watched the BBC video you sent me and it seems they verified an entrance to an underground structure just outside the hospital, where three bunker busters hit. They could not independently confirm if the footage showing bodies/cash/munitions inside the tunnels is from that site, nor the layout of the tunnels, nor whether the tunnels go under or connect the actual hospital building itself. But the dude seems to be dead, I personally doubt the IDF would kill him somewhere else without announcing it to the world. Yeah, maybe they had a command center under the parking lot a few meters from the Emergency Room, which is technically not under the hospital. But on the other hand, if you want to split that hair, technically Israel’s bunker busters didn’t hit the hospital building, they hit the parking lot, some green space between buildings, and a nearby road… As to whether it constitutes a war crime, it probably is a war crime since apparently Israel didn’t warn ahead of time. I’m not sure about proportionality. My point was countering you on c&c under hospitals. Older BBC video [https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c4g28z483eko](https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c4g28z483eko) ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5090 "2025-08-18T03:19:33Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > So are you backhandedly admitting that there no independent confirmation? Backhandedly? I think it’s pretty patently obvious that the only two sides you could possibly get confirmation from on that sort of thing are Israel and Hamas, and it’s equally obvious why that confirmation isn’t forthcoming from Hamas’ side. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5091 "2025-08-18T03:25:25Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I personally doubt the IDF would kill him somewhere else without announcing it to the world. …LOL. Then you haven’t been following this conflict closely enough. > [@Max\_S](#): > > But on the other hand, if you want to split that hair, Yes, we ARE going to split this hair. Because the hospital was bombed, killing 28 people. It was done without warning. It was a _warcrime_. > [@Max\_S](#): > > My point was countering you on c&c under hospitals. You didn’t counter me at all. Because _we don’t know where he was found_, and secondly, a couple of mattresses on the floor, two chairs and a desk are really stretching the definition of a “command and control bunker.” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5092 "2025-08-18T03:29:38Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I think it’s pretty patently obvious that the only two sides you could possibly get confirmation from on that sort of thing are Israel and Hamas …or Israel could let international media people in. Or there are a number of reputable international independent international investigatory agencies that could also be given access to the locations and the information. Heck: take it to the International Criminal Court. Present the information as a defence at the International Court of Justice. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5093 "2025-08-18T03:31:50Z")
But here is your opportunity to show _the rest of this message board_ that you have solid evidence to show us, right? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5094 "2025-08-18T14:06:52Z")
Sure, it was mentioned, but the article I saw also stated that the country’s main labour unions are not backing a general strike. So, while a few stores may not have opened, it is still business as usual in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5095 "2025-08-18T21:27:39Z")
[https://archive.is/sfaOT](https://archive.is/sfaOT) Hundreds of thousands of Israelis are protesting, disruptively, the war in Gaza. Good for them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5096 "2025-08-20T12:22:05Z")
> **[Netanyahu declares war on the world, dragging Israel and global Jewry toward...](https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2025-08-19/ty-article-opinion/netanyahu-declares-war-on-the-world-dragging-israel-and-global-jewry-toward-the-abyss/00000198-c3d7-d1e9-abf9-dbf7ab850000)** > > \*\*\* Haaretz says Netanyahu is opening up another front in the war - the rest of the world… ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5097 "2025-08-20T14:13:11Z")
As they say in Asia, “Never get involved in a land war in the rest of the world.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=247) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=249)