# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 265
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2025, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5418 "2025-10-16T08:52:59Z")
The anti-Islamic anti-Hamas militias are vying for power as well as the Islamic anti-Hamas militias, not to worry! Which political parties are actually “banned” under the draft agreement, other than Hamas? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2025, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5419 "2025-10-17T14:07:20Z")
A terrorist who participated in October 7th and then managed to immigrate to the United States has been arrested in Louisiana. [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/17/us/fbi-hamas-attack-louisiana.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.uE8.zTMe.8-olRlhIWLLf&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/17/us/fbi-hamas-attack-louisiana.html?unlocked_article_code=1.uE8.zTMe.8-olRlhIWLLf&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2025, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5420 "2025-10-17T15:40:18Z")
To be clear, he was arrested for his participation in the October 7th attack, and for lying to obtain his visa. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2025, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5421 "2025-10-29T12:11:10Z")
How’s the ceasefire going? Israeli strikes kill over 100 Gazans, including 46 children: > **[At least 104 killed, including 46 children, by IDF strikes on Gaza, Health...](https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2025-10-29/ty-article/.premium/at-least-90-killed-including-24-children-by-idf-strikes-on-gaza-health-ministry-says/0000019a-2ed3-d36c-a3bf-bed734f90000)** > > Israel Carried Out Airstrikes Against Several Targets in the Gaza Strip After Accusing Hamas of Violating the Cease-fire, in an Incident That Killed an IDF Engineering Team Reservist in Rafah. After the Series of Strikes, the IDF Said It Would Renew... ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5422 "2025-11-03T12:31:47Z")
> **[Yair Wallach (@yairwallach.bsky.social)](https://bsky.app/profile/yairwallach.bsky.social/post/3m4icrbrtvc26)** > > Following the documented rape of a Palestinian prisoner in Sde Teyman, the military prosecutor ordered the arrest of the soldiers involved. > There was govt-supported riots trying to prevent their arrest. In response, she leaked the video evidence. > Now... > Following the documented rape of a Palestinian prisoner in Sde Teyman, the military prosecutor ordered the arrest of the soldiers involved. There was govt-supported riots trying to prevent their arrest. In response, she leaked the video evidence. Now she has been removed by the Israeli govt. > This is the clearest proof that Israel’s legal authorities are unwilling and unable to investigate and prosecute Israeli war crimes. Even when military prosecutors try (in an embarrassing case where the evidence was irrefutable) they (not the perpetrators) are disciplined and punished. > The case for International Criminal Court intervention is clear and indisputable. Israel cannot and does not investigate itself for crimes against humanity. Accountability has to come from elsewhere. This Israeli government is every bit as evil and inhumane as Hamas, and with much greater power, they are causing much greater suffering. They are enemies of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5423 "2025-11-03T20:52:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Following the documented rape of a Palestinian prisoner in Sde Teyman, the military prosecutor ordered the arrest of the soldiers involved. There was govt-supported riots trying to prevent their arrest. In response, she leaked the video evidence. Now she has been removed by the Israeli govt. > **[Why has the Israeli army’s top lawyer resigned after leaking rape evidence?](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/11/1/why-has-the-israeli-armys-top-lawyer-resigned-after-leaking-rape-evidence)** > > Video of alleged rape of Palestinian prisoner at Sde Teiman went viral last year. Now the lawyer who leaked it has quit. First, she resigned- under pressure- not “removed”. Next the soldiers were arrested and five were indicted and under trial currently. So, yes, that was a horrible incident, but most of those accused were arrested and indicted. Did Hamas arrest and indict any of it’s members who committed atrocities against the hostages, etc.? No, of course not. So Israel still operates under the rule of law, at least here. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5424 "2025-11-03T21:09:41Z")
> At least nine soldiers were detained in connection with the man’s rape. All but five were released relatively quickly. > In February, the remaining soldiers were indicted for “severely abusing” the detainee, but not raping him. The trial is ongoing. Rule of law? Under this Israeli government? That’s a joke. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5425 "2025-11-03T21:13:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, yes, that was a horrible incident, but most of those accused were arrested and indicted. That sounds awful for the soldiers. [Oh wait…](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/03/israels-top-military-lawyer-arrested-after-she-admitted-leaking-video-of-soldiers-abuse) > [The five soldiers were charged with aggravated abuse] have not been named and are currently not in custody or under any legal restrictions, Israeli media reported. > … > There has been only one conviction of an Israeli soldier for assaulting Palestinians in detention during the war, although widespread torture and abuse have been documented in Israel’s jail system, and dozens of Palestinians have died in captivity. > > No soldiers have been charged for killing civilians in Gaza, even after high-profile attacks that prompted international outrage, including the killing of paramedics and strikes on a team from the World Central Kitchen charity. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5426 "2025-11-04T03:54:03Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > That sounds awful for the soldiers. They were charged. In the USA and UK, most suspects are not confined awaiting trial, they get bail or are released under recognizance. Why not wait under the trails are over before you decide this is a whitewash? It might be, sure, but so far, the soldiers have been criminally charged. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5427 "2025-11-04T11:07:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why not wait under the trails are over before you decide this is a whitewash? …what happened to the soldiers that killed the [fifteen aid workers](https://news.sky.com/story/two-hours-of-terror-sky-news-investigation-reveals-how-israels-deadly-attack-on-aid-workers-unfolded-13348776)? _“They’re lying there, just lying there,” Assad says, as the ambulance comes to a stop. “Quick! It looks like an accident.”_ _Two other men rush out of the fire engine. Assad pulls the handbrake inside his ambulance._ _Three seconds later, a volley of shots ring out. Rifaat jumps out of the ambulance, diving for cover by the side of the road._ _For five-and-a-half minutes, Israeli troops continue to fire at the unarmed medics._ _As they do so, Rifaat recites the Muslim Shahada - a statement of faith often said before death._ _“Mum, forgive me. This is the path I chose, to help people,” Rifaat says towards the end of the video._ _“Get up!” a voice shouts in Hebrew, before the recording abruptly ends._ There is video. For five minutes, IDF soldiers fired on unarmed medics. The IDF lied about the incident. They claimed the lights were off: but the video shows the lights were on. The IDF claims the medics lacked the required permissions: but the area they were travelling in was not a combat zone and they didn’t require coordination with the IDF. The IDF lied about the vehicles being crushed and buried. This was undoubtedly a warcrime followed by a cover-up. But the only consequence was some people got fired and some others got disciplinary action. What happened to the people that killed Hind Rajab? Or the paramedics who tried to rescue her? Nothing. What investigations have there been into the multiple allegations of humiliations, beatings and torture at Israeli detention camps? > **[Israel must end mass incommunicado detention and torture of Palestinians from...](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/07/israel-must-end-mass-incommunicado-detention-and-torture-of-palestinians-from-gaza/)** > > Israeli authorities must end their indefinite incommunicado detention of Palestinians from the occupied Gaza Strip, without charge or trial under the Unlawful Combatants law, in flagrant violation of international law, said Amnesty... > **[Torture and degrading treatment of Palestinian detainees](https://amnesty.org.nz/torture-of-palestinian-detainees/)** > > Israeli authorities have increased their arbitrary detention of Palestinians across the occupied West Bank. > **[Israel/Palestine: An Abyss of Human Suffering in Gaza](https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/01/16/israel/palestine-abyss-human-suffering-gaza)** > > The Israeli military killed, wounded, starved, and forcibly displaced Palestinian civilians in Gaza in 2024, and destroyed their homes, schools, hospitals, and infrastructure at a scale unprecedented in recent history. We don’t have to wait until trials for this small group of soldiers before deciding there will be a “whitewash.” It’s entirely possible that this small group of soldiers will be held accountable because they were foolish enough to both get caught on camera and _then the footage got leaked_. But how much footage _doesn’t_ get leaked? I mean…they did this to Greta Thunberg. _“They hit and kicked me,” Thunberg [told Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet](https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/0VM0qo/greta-thunberg-berattar-om-skrackdygnen-i-israeliskt-fangelse), adding that the soldiers “threw an Israeli flag over me” to humiliate her._ _“Then they ripped my frog hat off, threw it on the ground, stomped and kicked it and kind of had a tantrum,” she said. Thunberg alleged her hands were cable-tied and soldiers lined up to take selfies with her as her belongings were slowly cut up with knives._ _At one point, far-right minister Itamar Ben-Gvir appeared before the group of activists and shouted, “You are terrorists. You want to kill Jewish babies,” Thunberg said._ _…_ _During their captivity, Thunberg claimed jail guards frequently threatened to “gas” the activists in their cells. Thunberg added she was isolated in her own cell, which was infested with insects._ Do you think we are going to see any accountability for that? > [@DrDeth](#): > > So Israel still operates under the rule of law, at least here. You wouldn’t have allegations of humiliation, torture and abuse spanning _decades_ if Israel operated under the “rule of law” in regards to how they treat Palestinians. They beat and kicked Greta Thunberg _in front of multiple witnesses_ because they knew they would get away with it. They choked and kicked American activist [Chris Smalls](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/29/chris-smalls-amazon-labor-union-gaza) because they knew they could get away with it. If these soldiers _are_ held accountable, it’s just a _drop in the bucket_. Just look at this footage and tell me this is how you think prisoners should be treated. If the “rule of law” allows this: then those rules aren’t worth anything. > More footage. > > > B.M. @ireallyhateyou This isn’t leaked footage. It was proudly broadcast on national TV. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5428 "2025-11-05T09:46:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > First, she resigned- **under pressure** - not “removed”. My emphasis. Did that distinction actually seem like it mattered a damn, in your head? Because on the screen, I don’t see a difference beyond nitpicking. Not when the people doing the pressuring are government ministers. And, of course, now the whistleblower is being [prosecuted](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/03/israels-top-military-lawyer-arrested-after-she-admitted-leaking-video-of-soldiers-abuse). Because of course, Israel _really_ cares about the rule of law. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5429 "2025-11-05T20:06:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And, of course, now the whistleblower is being [prosecuted](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/03/israels-top-military-lawyer-arrested-after-she-admitted-leaking-video-of-soldiers-abuse). Because of course, Israel _really_ cares about the rule of law. Yes, the difference between fired and resigned under pressure is important. When your “whistleblowing” action is against the law, prosecution is what is done under the rule of law. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5430 "2025-11-05T20:32:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, the difference between fired and resigned under pressure is important. Not really. And I find this incident incredibly depressing. Even when there’s solid evidence of abuse, the Israeli system hides it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5431 "2025-11-05T20:48:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, the difference between fired and resigned under pressure is important. Not really, no. > [@DrDeth](#): > > When your “whistleblowing” action is against the law, prosecution is what is done under the rule of law. Please. When rapists are caught on video, prosecuting them for rape is what is done under “rule of law”. Israel sees fit to just not do that. Selective application of law to only some is the very _opposite_ of rule of law. It’s using law as a club by the people in charge, no more, no less. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2025, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5432 "2025-11-10T10:47:55Z")
> **[Israeli soldiers speak out on killings of Gaza civilians](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/10/israeli-soldiers-breaking-ranks-gaza-civilians-human-shields)** > > IDF soldiers tell documentary of opening fire unprovoked and arbitrary designations of who was an enemy Several Israeli soldiers speak on the record about their commanders being totally okay with mass murder of unarmed civilians, use of civilian Palestinians as human shields for the IDF, and other routine atrocities in Gaza. Many of these soldiers are already overcome with guilt and shame. Someday the Dope’s IDF defenders and rationalizers will be too. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2025, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5433 "2025-11-10T13:48:19Z")
Yes, saw that. Will look out for that documentary. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5434 "2025-11-18T01:00:07Z")
The UN Security Council has approved the US-backed peace plan 13-0, Russia and China abstaining. > **[UN approves the Trump administration's plan for the future of Gaza](https://apnews.com/article/united-nations-gaza-ceasefire-us-resolution-russia-107e44e276fe04a5365ff6d914545718)** > > The Trump administration’s blueprint to secure and govern Gaza has won strong approval at the United Nations. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5435 "2025-11-18T01:06:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The UN Security Council has approved the US-backed peace plan 13-0, Russia and China abstaining. I have seen worse plans, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5436 "2025-11-18T01:54:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have seen worse plans, to be honest It explicitly includes a pathway to Palestinian statehood. Considering how Hamas started and then lost this war, it’s the most incredibly generous deal they could possibly hope for. Ben Gvir and his ilk are raging and threatening to topple Netanyahu’s coalition; Hamas is very upset too. With both of those groups upset, that’s a very good sign. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5437 "2025-11-18T21:08:27Z")
> **[Reddit - The heart of the internet](https://www.reddit.com/r/JewsOfConscience/comments/1p07qp5/former_obama_speechwriter_sarah_hurwitz_speaking/)** Former Obama speechwriter Sarah Hurwitz says Holocaust education has backfired in part because people see Gazan civilians as victims: “They think the lesson of the Holocaust is…you fight the big powerful people hurting the weak people.” My God. I guess “never again” doesn’t apply if some of the “weak people” being massacred did bad things? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=264) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=266)