# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/613 "2023-10-26T22:25:31Z")
Yes sir. The yoke of oppression is still heavy, nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/614 "2023-10-26T22:25:48Z")
That’s been explained a number of times, but if that hasn’t been “adequate” I suppose you’ll just have to wait and see. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/615 "2023-10-26T22:27:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Hamas’s grievance is the existence of Israel. Absolutely. Why should a state exist whose existence is predicated on the oppression of a people? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/616 "2023-10-26T22:28:14Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > Had evil Hamas not started this horrible round of war, the Gazans would still be oppressed by Israel. Had the various political groups in charge of the Palestinians over the years ever been able to stomach the continued existence of the Jewish people, a two state solution has _always_ been on the table. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/617 "2023-10-26T22:29:53Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > Why should a state exist whose existence is predicated on the oppression of a people? Israel is not predicated on the oppression of anyone. If seeing Jews living across the border without having to worry about pogroms is _oppressing_ for someone, then that someone is the problem. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/618 "2023-10-26T22:31:12Z")
A two state solution necessarily denies the Palestinians’ rights, the main one being their Right of Return. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/619 "2023-10-26T22:31:21Z")
You’ve got it backwards - oppression and discrimination makes Israel less safe. The only way to long term security for Israel is peace, which requires prosperity and freedom for Palestinians and Gazans. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/620 "2023-10-26T22:31:37Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That’s been explained a number of times, but if that hasn’t been “adequate” I suppose you’ll just have to wait and see. I don’t think I’ve seen it explained, and I’ll gladly eat my words if you can point me to a post or two with the details. I’ve just seen “kill all the terrorists” or “destroy the terrorist infrastructure” without definitions of what that means. I saw today that Israel said they’ve killed “thousands of terrorists.” What defines a terrorist in this case? How many circles out, using LHoD’s description above? How does Israel know the thousands of people killed so far were all terrorist? How will they target the right people if/when they begin the assault? ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/621 "2023-10-26T22:37:38Z")
That is not correct. Israel violates the Palestinians’ rights in order to exist, as the Zionists have pointed out in other terms. Allowing the Palestinians their rights would upset the demographic majority in the areas under Israel’s control. It would no longer be the Jewish state, hence it would cease to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/622 "2023-10-26T22:37:40Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I don’t think I’ve seen it explained, and I’ll gladly eat my words if you can point me to a post or two with the details. I’ve just seen “kill all the terrorists” or “destroy the terrorist infrastructure” without definitions of what that means. > [@Babale](#): > > Nature and politics abhor vacuums. If Israel smashes up Gaza for a while and leaves, Hamas will return. If Israel ensures that something else replaces Hamas, then that’s how Hamas is destroyed. > [@Babale](#): > > > [@Riemann](#): > > > > Of course the Gazan population is not going to welcome the IDF as liberators, because they have suffered immense hardship from the blockade and been fed a constant diet of antisemitic propaganda. But nobody is _born_ a death cult terrorist. After Hamas is removed from power, **we will need to offer Palestinians much better choices** , and a crucial part of that will be to marginalize the right wing extremists in Israel. But given time and a path to a viable future, I refuse to believe that the young generation of Palestinians are incapable of understanding how badly Iran and others have fucked them and used them as pawns, and that putting their faith in a terroristic death cult like Hamas can lead only to a repetition of this misery. > > 👏 👏 👏 > > Exactly this. Here are a couple posts from this thread, there are others in the other threads. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/623 "2023-10-26T22:39:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’ve got it backwards - oppression and discrimination makes Israel less safe I don’t have it backwards. You are correct in this statement. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The only way to long term security for Israel is peace, which requires prosperity and freedom for Palestinians and Gazans. Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/624 "2023-10-26T22:40:24Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > That is not correct. Israel violates the Palestinians’ rights in order to exist, as the Zionists have pointed out in other terms. There are literally millions of Israeli Arabs. What the fuck are you talking about? No, you don’t get to move to Israel and take someone’s house because your great great grandpa listened to the Egyptians and Jordanians when they said “leave Israel and we’ll kill all the Jews for you”, just like I don’t get to go to Morocco and take my grandpa’s store back from the guy who started squatting there after my grandpa got chased out of the country for being Jewish. That doesn’t mean your “rights” are violated. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/625 "2023-10-26T22:44:32Z")
And to sweeten the deal, when a two state solution IS reached, the Israeli Arabs will stay Israeli Arabs, productive members of society; while we will be forced to take back the settlers who get evicted from the West Bank, useless provocateurs that they are. And that’s OK, send the fuckers packing - it’s just too bad they have to go back to Israel rather than an uninhabited island somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/626 "2023-10-26T22:48:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > There are literally millions of Israeli Arabs. What the fuck are you talking about? I’m fucking talking about Israel violating the Palestinians’ Right of Return. > [@Babale](#): > > No, you don’t get to move to Israel and take someone’s house because your great great grandpa listened to the Egyptians and Jordanians when they said “leave Israel and we’ll kill all the Jews for you”, just like I don’t get to go to Morocco and take my grandpa’s store back from the guy who started squatting there after my grandpa got chased out of the country for being Jewish. That doesn’t mean your “rights” are violated. You shouldn’t get to ethnically cleans areas under your control when establishing your independence, and continuing the oppression to make room for your favored demographic, either. That’s an egregious violation of other’s rights that continues to this day. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/627 "2023-10-26T22:50:26Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > Had evil Hamas not started this horrible round of war, the Gazans would still be oppressed by Israel. I hear the Gazans are also being oppressed by Hamas … and cannot speak their mind, make manifestations against Hamas-rule and if they do, they get thrown off high buildings … can you speak to that or does that not fit into a black-and-white world? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/628 "2023-10-26T22:50:46Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > You shouldn’t get to ethnically cleans areas under your control when establishing your independence, 1. Israel _didn’t_ ethnically cleanse the Arabs, as evidenced by the fact that millions of them continued to leave peacefully within Israel. 2. So when the Palestinians get independence what should happen to the settlers? Personally I think they should be evicted, but let’s not mince words - that’s an ethnic cleansing. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/629 "2023-10-26T22:51:48Z")
According to the Zionists’ terms, the deal wouldn’t be very sweet for the Palestinians, the clearing of settlers notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/630 "2023-10-26T22:52:23Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > According to the Zionists’ terms, the deal wouldn’t be very sweet for the Palestinians, What’s not sweet about getting your own country? ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/631 "2023-10-26T22:53:09Z")
Yeah, Hamas just worsen the situation for the Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/632 "2023-10-26T22:54:54Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > People have been saying something to the effect of “Hamas must be destroyed” here (obviously echoing what Israel’s stated goals are in this conflict) and I still have never seen an adequate explanation for how that is supposed to happen. use the ISIS - destruction playbook, adapted and updated … sniper off any higher and middle “hamas manager” until they run out of steam that is a start. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=28)