# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 278
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2025, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5678 "2025-12-18T15:11:50Z")
According to this link, Israeli authorities are still holding back lifesaving aid, leading to more tragic and avoidable deaths of Gazan civilians: [https://johnmenadue.com/post/2025/12/horrible-scenes-in-gaza-as-winter-storm-compounds-vicious-impacts-of-israels-genocidal-blockade/](https://johnmenadue.com/post/2025/12/horrible-scenes-in-gaza-as-winter-storm-compounds-vicious-impacts-of-israels-genocidal-blockade/) > At least three children, including two infants and a nine-year-old, died from hypothermia or cold exposure within a 24-hour period. Another five were crushed after a house sheltering displaced civilians collapsed due to the storm. As of Friday, at least 14 people were reported dead from the storm, and several more are injured, according to Gaza’s Ministry of Interior and National Security. > “Civilians are now wading through sewage, mud, and debris, with no proper shelter,” said Bushra Khalidi, the policy lead for Oxfam in the occupied Palestinian territories. “This is not a failure of preparedness or capacity; it’s the direct result of the systematic obstruction of aid.” > “The Israeli authorities continue to block the entry of basic shelter materials, fuel, and water infrastructure, leaving people exposed to entirely preventable harm,” Khalidi continued. “When access is denied, storms become deadly. This suffering is being manufactured by policy, not weather.”… A “slow” genocide is still a genocide. EDIT: Also, for the record, Hamas is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5679 "2025-12-19T02:42:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A “slow” genocide is still a genocide. What is the solution to dealing with an enemy that shows a history of attacking Israel with no sign of stopping? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5680 "2025-12-19T02:51:03Z")
(Withdrawn) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5681 "2025-12-19T03:06:31Z")
Moderating: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A “slow” genocide is still a genocide. Please save that word for the pit thread. Once again: > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Reminder: > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > Moderating > > > > > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > > > > > Ok but your terminology is opinion not fact > > > > I think we’ve thrashed the definition of “genocide” to death in this thread, and it’s not something we are going to agree on, and it’s also maybe not relevant if “killing this many civilians and destroying the infrastructure in that way” is “genocide”. I’d like to request that > > > > 1. folks avoid the use of the word “genocide”. There are lots of other words to describe what the IDF is doing in Gaza. > > 2. if the word “genocide” is used, just report it, and don’t argue over it. > > 3. and of course, please feel free to use the pit thread if you find that restriction overly limiting. > > That was a long time ago, so no warnings, and no singling out posters. But this thread should be used to talk about the actual situation, and not to endlessly argue the definition of “genocide". ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5682 "2025-12-19T04:36:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What is the solution to dealing with an enemy that shows a history of attacking Israel with no sign of stopping? What is the solution to dealing with an enemy that shows a history of attacking, dispossessing and oppressing Palestinians with no sign of stopping? It’s foolish to pretend that this conflict has only come about because one side (whichever side that may be) has simply spontaneously chosen to be evil. There are sufficient valid grievances on both sides to fuel decades of violence, just as there were in, e.g., Northern Ireland or Sri Lanka. But pretending that only one side is responsible for the conflict is just going to make it harder to achieve any actually effective solution. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5683 "2025-12-19T04:58:58Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What is the solution to dealing with an enemy that shows a history of attacking, dispossessing and oppressing Palestinians with no sign of stopping? “Don’t start a war with them” would have been my suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5684 "2025-12-19T08:46:24Z")
So, either leave or lie down and die? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5685 "2025-12-19T08:47:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > leave or lie down and die Which of those scenarios were they experiencing on October 6th? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5686 "2025-12-19T08:56:56Z")
They [experienced](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/west-bank-demolitions-and-displacement-overview-january-march-2023)[both](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Wehda_Street_airstrikes)? Or did you want Oct 6, [specifically](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/6/palestinian-killed-as-israeli-settlers-attack-west-bank-town-of-huwara)? I mean, you cannot possibly be ignorant of the fact that Palestinians were killed or displaced by Israel before Oct 7th, so I don’t understand what the function of such an obviously hollow rhetorical question actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5687 "2025-12-19T09:00:18Z")
And did the actions they took on October 7th _improve_ their lot in any way? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5688 "2025-12-19T09:01:41Z")
And are you going to continue just asking questions? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5689 "2025-12-19T09:02:51Z")
Depends on whether you’re going to acknowledge that starting a war with Israel was a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5690 "2025-12-19T09:08:53Z")
It certainly was a very _costly_ idea. I think the ultimate end result has yet to be determined. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5691 "2025-12-19T09:36:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think the ultimate end result has yet to be determined. And what “end result” would justify October 7th? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5692 "2025-12-19T10:35:34Z")
Who said anything about “justify”? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5693 "2025-12-19T10:39:06Z")
So we’re in agreement that October 7th was unjustifiable, then. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5694 "2025-12-19T10:43:09Z")
Massacring civilians is always unjustifiable, whether by Hamas or the IDF. Similarly, restricting lifesaving aid to civilians in desperate circumstances is also always unjustifiable. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5695 "2025-12-19T10:53:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Massacring civilians is always unjustifiable, whether by Hamas or the IDF The IDF does not “massacre civilians”. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Similarly, restricting lifesaving aid to civilians in desperate circumstances is also always unjustifiable. It’s not Israel’s responsibility to feed the people of Gaza. That’s the responsibility of their government. Unfortunately, their government would prefer to rob them so as to further their agenda of killing as many Jews as possible. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5696 "2025-12-19T11:07:25Z")
IDF members (and at least one US mercenary) have personally reported witnessing and being given orders to shoot unarmed civilians who posed no threat. Gaza has no functioning government right now, aside from Israel, which controls access to food and aid. Gazan civilians are humans with human rights, and many are desperate and dying of very avoidable causes, and they would be surviving instead of dying if only the Israeli government would allow lifesaving aid to reach them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5697 "2025-12-19T11:34:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Gaza has no functioning government right now I guess they shouldn’t have started a war with a nation that outarmed and outgunned them, then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=277) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=279)