# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 291
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2025, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5938 "2025-12-21T10:52:56Z")
I _do_ genuinely appreciate it when criticism of Israel is so transparently biased though. Thanks for not even keeping it subtle. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A starting point means an upper limit, and that’s if we assume the names are accurate An _upper_ limit? As in you think that the _maximum_ number of militants killed is what the dossier says? The idea that the IDF could have killed a militant but not identified them by name in order to mark them off is that outlandish to you? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You act as if this data is worthless, when it could be, with certain other data, useful for painting the whole picture. This data isn’t worthless, it tells you something specific: how many people the IDF identified as militants, and how many of _those_ people the IDF identified as dead. (On one particular document, but that’s a whole other question). The problem is when someone tries to pretend that the number of militants identified as dead in this dossier is equivalent to the number of militants killed by the IDF. It’s a comparison of apples and ducks. The IDF isn’t able to ascertain the exact identity of every person it kills in combat, nor do you need to know someone’s name in order to identify him as a combatant who is actively firing at you and thus a valid target for firing back at. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2025, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5939 "2025-12-21T11:13:17Z")
An upper limit for civilians (assuming the names are accurate as combatants). Making assumptions that make you so angry can’t be good for your long term health… ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2025, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5940 "2025-12-21T12:15:04Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If an IDF sniper shoots some Hamasniks, you expect him to what, radio in and read their name tags off to his CO through his scope? …did you not read my post? The Gaza Ministry of Health record the names, ages gender and location of where everybody is killed in Gaza. I don’t expect them to read the names tags off to the CO. But to cross reference the names from the list. Thats clearly what they would have done with the other names. > [@Babale](#): > > You don’t shoot random people, you shoot combatants. You know, dudes with guns who are shooting at you. You don’t need to know their _name_ for that 🙄 > **[Harrowing Gaza testimonies describe children shot through the heart as...](https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/harrowing-gaza-testimonies-describe-children-shot-through-heart-britain-defends-arms)** > > LAWYERS shared harrowing testimonies today from doctors who treated children shot through the heart in Gaza as the government defended its decision to continue exporting arms to Israel in court.In written submissions for the case, the government has... _“I treated so many children that had been snipered, some of them multiple times.” He said that he evaluated two children who had been snipered twice each in the head and chest. “These two children were shot so perfectly in the chest that I couldn’t have put my stethoscope over their hearts more accurately.” He said there were multiple pre-teen children with gunshot wounds to the head. “Their families told us they had been shot by Israeli forces while playing inside or in the street.” He described seeing a three-year-old shot in the head and neck: “I could see it was not an accident.”_ That was testimony from Dr Mark Perlmutter, which echoes the reports from multiple foreign surgeons/doctors that worked in Gaza that say they worked on multiple children that were targeted by IDF snipers. Forensic evidence has been posted on paywalled links to the New York Times you can look up yourself. That 3 year old wasn’t a combantant. > [@Babale](#): > > …if you claim to know that, I don’t “claim” to know that. Its a fact. > [@Babale](#): > > and you also claim that there are that there are tens of thousands of people just missing under rubble, The data at the time the report was from May. The reports of at least 10,000 bodies missing under the rubble are the most recent [estimates](https://theintercept.com/2025/11/28/gaza-palestine-ceasefire-rubble-bodies/). > [@Babale](#): > > You understand that these are two completely contradictory claims, right? No they are not. The current death toll in Gaza [exceeds 70,000](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/29/gaza-death-toll-rises-says-health-ministry). About 400 Palestinians have been killed since the “ceasefire.” There are an estimated 10,000 missing under the rubble. There is nothing contradictory here. > [@Babale](#): > > And you’re citing the same Hamas Ministry of Health that has retracted thousands of death claims when it turned out the people they claim to have been dead were not actually dead. The Hamas Ministry of Health DOES retract deaths when they find they have made mistakes. That’s what one would expect them to do, right? I’m not entirely sure what specific incident you are referring to. But almost everyone, including the US State Department, acknowledge that the Gaza Ministry of Health numbers are broadly accurate and most likely to be a significant undercount. > [@Babale](#): > > So no, I don’t find the idea that this is a significant undercount because of vibes remotely convincing. > [@from DW](#): > > ## Are figures provided by Hamas reliable? > > Spagat, Shikaki and their teams applied different methods but pursued a similar question: They wanted to independently test the reliability of the numbers reported by Gaza’s Health Ministry. What they found, is that the death reports are trustworthy insofar as they are by no means an exaggeration of the actual death toll, but a conservative minimum tally. > > “Here, we’ve got an independent measurement that shows pretty definitively, I believe, that they’re not exaggerating the death toll,” Spagat said. He added that their study shows Gaza’s Ministry of Health provides “a pretty accurate picture of the demographics of the people killed, in particular of the women, children and elderly where our number is very similar to their number.” > … > The researchers found that between October 7, 2023, and January 5, 2025, some 75,200 Palestinians in Gaza died a violent death as a direct result of the war. This figure is about 40% higher than the one reported by Gaza’s Ministry of Health for the same period (45,650 deaths). > > The researchers compiled a separate tally of nonviolent war-related deaths, including those who died from starvation or disease due to siege and displacement, and excluding those who were likely to have died of old age or illness regardless of the war. This count raised Gaza’s death toll by about another 8,540 so-called “indirect” deaths for the period in question. > **[Gaza: What is the actual death toll, and how can we be sure? – DW – 07/03/2025](https://www.dw.com/en/gaza-what-is-the-actual-death-toll-and-how-can-we-be-sure/a-73136975)** > > The health ministry in Gaza has reported at least 55,000 Palestinians killed since October 2023. Israel routinely dismisses these death counts as too high. A new indepedent study says they are actually too low. > [@ABC Australia](#): > > The Ministry of Health casualty figures also only include people killed by the conflict, not those who have died from indirect causes like disease and malnutrition. > [@](#): > > The other is when bodies never make it to hospital because they’re trapped under rubble, left unidentifiable, or were buried in back gardens, vacant blocks or even on the side of the road. > > One man told the ABC that paramedics divide up remains found in specific locations and distribute them to family members of people believed to be killed there. But there is never confirmation that the remains families are burying are their loved one. > … > But despite enormous challenges in collecting data, experts say the death toll is not only recorded honestly, it is likely an under-count. > … > But his brother’s pregnant wife was believed to have been trapped under the rubble and was not counted, neither was his other sister-in-law who was killed months later. > **[Amid gruesome hospital scenes, the true death toll in Gaza might be much...](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-19/gaza-death-toll-numbers-killed-israel-strikes-buried-body-parts/104259532)** > > The reality on the ground in Gaza makes assessing the true death toll an enormous challenge, but despite that, experts say it is not only recorded honestly, but also likely an under-count.  > [@Babale](#): > > So you keep asserting with no evidence. Fuck, who knows, maybe 75 million addition Palestinians are buried under rubble, for all you know. I resent this accusation. I spend a considerable amount of time making sure that everything I post in this thread is meticulously cited. I take the time to both verify any claims I make here AND can back them up on request. And in this case the numbers _have_ to be higher. Because it doesn’t count those who have died because they couldn’t treat treatable things like cancer or kidney failure because the healthcare system has been attacked, or because of malnutrition. > [@Babale](#): > > +972 provided their methodology, and as noted, it makes 0 fucking sense. It’s right there in the article that no one bothered to read past the headline. I read it past the headline. It makes sense. If you have better numbers we can use, feel free to share. > [@Babale](#): > > (Citation needed) > [@](#): > > The airstrike surgically targeted the apartment on the second floor where Rafaat was in a 3-storey building, and not the entire building; indicating the apartment was the target and not possible collateral damage. > … > However, a close friend of Refaat’s told Euro-Med Monitor that he had received an anonymous phone call from someone who identified himself as an Israeli officer and threatened Refaat that they knew precisely the school where he was located and were about to get to his location with the advancement of Israeli ground troops. > > While the credibility of the threat itself is unclear, it contributed to prompting Refaat to move back to his sister’s apartment, believing it was more concealed than an open and overcrowded school where it would have been difficult to hide. > **[Israeli Strike on Refaat al-Areer Apparently Deliberate](https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6014/Israeli-Strike-on-Refaat-al-Areer-Apparently-Deliberate)** > > Israeli Strike on Refaat al-Areer Apparently Deliberate On the night of his death, he was threatened by someone identifying himself as an Israeli officer. So he moved back into his sisters apartment which was surgically targeted, and he was killed. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2025, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5941 "2025-12-21T15:22:36Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > However, a close friend of Refaat’s told Euro-Med Monitor that he had received an anonymous phone call from someone who identified himself as an Israeli officer and threatened Refaat that they knew precisely the school where he was located and were about to get to his location with the advancement of Israeli ground troops. And we’re really meant to believe that? OK bud. Is the Israeli officer on the room with us right now? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > On the night of his death, he was threatened by someone identifying himself as an Israeli officer. So he moved back into his sisters apartment which was surgically targeted, and he was killed. Let’s pretend for a moment that an Israeli officer called him to threaten him (yeah, right). Let’s ignore for a moment that your own cite says: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > While the credibility of the threat itself is unclear But let’s ignore that and pretend that an IDF officer _called him to threaten him_, because IDF officers are apparently middle schoolers who like to prank call people. How the fuck would the IDF know that if they threaten him he would move into his sister’s apartment? Meanwhile, I looked into this _poet_ of yours. Did you know that immediately after October 7, this Refaat piece of shit responded to posts about Hamas fighters killing a baby in an oven by asking if they baked it with or without baking powder? He sure did have a beautiful way with words, huh? I wonder if anyone lectured him about making dead baby jokes, the way @iiandyiiii berated @Smapti upthread. Thankfully, these reports turned out to be false - a fact I’m sure Refaat was very disappointed by. But yeah, let’s trust whatever his “close friend” says about mysterious phone calls from Israeli officers. Who knows, maybe his Close Friend was the Andy of Gaza, and he told him how wrong it was to make those jokes in the aftermath of the Oct 7 slaughter. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2025, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5942 "2025-12-21T22:58:05Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > And we’re really meant to believe that? OK bud. Is the Israeli officer on the room with us right now? …considering the forum I really wish you could hold back on the sarcastic tone. Especially considering we are talking about something that really should be common knowledge, that has happened to multiple Palestinians. For example: Hossam Shabat. > [@mondoweiss](#): > > The Israeli military placed Hossam and five other Palestinian journalists on a hit list in October 2024. He regularly received death threats by call and text. Yesterday, that threat was carried out. We know that the IDF have the phone numbers of Palestinians because they call them to say “[we are going to blow up your home.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67327079)” One IDF intelligence unit is on record as having made [50,000 phone calls](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-intel-units-calls-with-gazans-reveal-cracks-of-dissent-against-hamas-rule/) (as of December 2023), 12 million voice message and 14 million text messages. From warnings to attempts to “turn” people to outright threats. It’s a propaganda unit. They do exactly what you would expect. > [@Babale](#): > > Let’s ignore for a moment that your own cite says: Lets not ignore that. Lets address it up front. You removed the context. The full sentence: _“While the credibility of the threat itself is unclear, it contributed to **prompting Refaat to move back to his sister’s apartment** …”_ Bolding mine. In context, the article is talking about Refaat’s state-of-mind _at the time_. He was unsure of the credibility of the threat. But it was serious enough that he made the decision to change locations. It turns out the threat was serious because _they killed him_. > [@Babale](#): > > because IDF officers are apparently middle schoolers who like to prank call people. Have you seen the IDF? [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-soldiers-play-with-gaza-womens-underwear-online-posts-2024-03-28/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-soldiers-play-with-gaza-womens-underwear-online-posts-2024-03-28/) > **[TRT World - 'Demeaning' to women: Israeli troops play with undergarments in...](https://www.trtworld.com/article/17550543)** > > The videos shot by Israeli soldiers are among dozens of posts in which troops in Gaza are shown displaying lingerie, mannequins, and in some cases both. > **[Violating intimacies](https://mondoweiss.net/2024/02/violating-intimacies/)** > > Israeli soldiers have photographed themselves posing with the lingerie of Palestinian women they have displaced or killed in Gaza. They join a long line of conquest images, from Abu Ghraib images to the spectacle of Jim Crow-era lynchings. > **[Viral video shows IDF reservist dancing in woman's lingerie | The Jerusalem Post](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-840383)** > > The reservist took part in a house raid in Bethlehem and was videoed wearing women's lingerie that he found in one of the bedrooms. > **[Colonial desire meets TikTok in Israel’s ’lingerie genre’](https://www.newarab.com/opinion/colonial-desire-meets-tiktok-israels-lingerie-genre)** > > The army’s twisted ’lingerie genre’ reveals and shapes how Israel views Palestinian women and connects sexual violence to genocide, writes Heidi Matthews. > **[GRAPHIC WARNING: Israeli soldiers play with Gaza women's underwear in online...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq5N4s1DxnE%2F)** > > THIS VIDEO CONTAINS SENSITIVE FOOTAGE THAT MAY DISTURB SOME VIEWERSIsraeli soldiers have been posting photos and videos of themselves toying with lingerie fo... > **[Israeli soldiers cheer after striking a UNRWA school in Palestine’s Gaza](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WPjIZP6sZw%2F)** > > A group of Israeli soldiers cheer as they blow up a UN-funded school which housed displaced civilians in Palestine’s Gaza into a pile of rubble.According to ... > **[Israeli Soldiers Torched Food, Homes, and a Critical Sewage Treatment Plant...](https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/israel-idf-soldiers-set-fire-food-homes-sewage-treatment-plan-after-ceasefire-announced)** > > Soldiers called the mass arson of Gaza City their “final touches.” What the hell kind of military is this? Not even enough discipline that they can’t help themselves from posting it for the entire world to see. Cheering as they blow up peoples houses. Stealing and prancing around in quite possibly dead womens underwear. I’d like to think most middle schoolers aren’t this depraved. I have no doubt that an army that does this is ALSO capable of trolling its targets with phone calls. > [@Babale](#): > > How the fuck would the IDF know that if they threaten him he would move into his sister’s apartment? They obviously didn’t. Some of his friends suggested the threats were of the nature that they were coming for him that night, and he went to his sisters because if they did, then less people would get killed. The implication here is that they knew where he was, and that instead of killing him at the shelter they killed him to the place that he went instead. > [@Babale](#): > > Did you know that immediately after October 7, this Refaat piece of shit responded to posts about Hamas fighters killing a baby in an oven by asking if they baked it with or without baking powder? But the baby wasn’t _real_. You know that, right? Hamas fighters didn’t kill a baby in any oven. It didn’t happen. This would be the equivalent of _blood libel_. A vicious, anti-Palestinian smear that is completely made up and at the time was being used as part of a hate campaign. What Hamas actually did on October the 7th was bad enough. But these sorts of lies (along with the 40 beheaded babies) helped fuel the intensity of Israels and the world’s response to October 7th which has lead to what we have today. And the thing is, even though I personally think Refaat’s response was in bad taste, I can certainly both understand why he said it, and also think it didn’t deserve a death sentence. > [@Babale](#): > > Thankfully, these reports turned out to be false - a fact I’m sure Refaat was very disappointed by. I don’t believe this to be true. He made the joke because he knew it wasn’t true and the baby was a fiction. He wouldn’t have made a joke about a real baby, and there is nothing to indicate he would have celebrated it. > [@Babale](#): > > Meanwhile, I looked into this _poet_ of yours. Here is Brian Cox reading IF I MUST DIE, the last poem by Refaat Alareer. > **[Brian Cox reads IF I MUST DIE, the last poem by Refaat Alareer, killed by an...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMpk2vynJiQ%2F)** > > Brian Cox reads If I Must Die, by beloved Palestinian poet, teacher and martyr Refaat Alareer.Refaat was killed on December 7th by an Israeli airstrike.This ... _“If I must die, you must live to tell my story…”_ > **[A Bilingual Poem from Gaza, by Refaat Alareer](https://worldliteraturetoday.org/blog/poetry/bilingual-poem-gaza-refaat-alareer)** > > “If I must die, / you must live / to tell my story. ..” from “If I Must Die,” by Refaat Alareer (trans. D. P. Snyder) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5943 "2025-12-22T02:58:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If destroying Hamas required 10 more years of fighting at roughly the average intensity of the last two years, and 500K deaths of Gazan children, would that be “worth it”, or “not worth it”, in your opinion? If “worth it”, is there any limit of dead children in Gaza at which you would say “not worth it”? If “not worth it”, what is the limit? I’d vote them off the island before I’d extend the war any further. No reason to kill off the children. Just move them to another land until a working agreement can be arranged. That’s the solution to Hama’s unending war. I suspect the Oct 6 attack was the last straw for Israel. The Israelis can fill in the tunnels and rebuild the land. Anybody wishing to return can do so under sponsorship. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5944 "2025-12-22T06:58:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Just move them to another land until a working agreement can be arranged. That’s the solution to Hama’s unending war. Aah, not The Forbidden Word, just sparkling ethnic cleansing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5945 "2025-12-22T13:51:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I suspect the Oct 6 attack was the last straw for Israel. The Israelis can fill in the tunnels and rebuild the land. Anybody wishing to return can do so under sponsorship. Not gonna happen. The Gazans aren’t going anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5946 "2025-12-22T14:33:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > Just move them to another land until a working agreement can be arranged. That’s the solution to Hama’s unending war. > > Aah, not The Forbidden Word, just sparkling ethnic cleansing. I did say there are lots of other words … ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2025, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5947 "2025-12-23T02:55:41Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Not gonna happen. The Gazans aren’t going anywhere. A martyr’s work is never done. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2025, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5948 "2025-12-25T21:13:34Z")
> **[Israel military warns Palestinians not to share their ordeal on social media](https://www.siasat.com/israel-military-warns-palestinians-not-to-share-their-ordeal-on-social-media-3316085/)** > > The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) distributed leaflets to Palestinians living in Tubas, in the northern occupied West Bank, on Wednesday, December 24, According to this article, Israel is dropping leaflets in the West Bank saying that Israel is watching Palestinians’ social media accounts, and posting “inciting content”, whatever that means, is a terrorist crime. If accurate, just another of many pieces of evidence that Israel is not in fact a free society, but rather severely restricts the rights, up to and including free speech rights, of hundreds of thousands of peaceful Palestinian civilians. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2025, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5949 "2025-12-26T10:29:40Z")
More ongoing settler brutality against Palestinian civilians in the WB: > **[IDF reservist caught on video driving tractor over Palestinian praying on...](https://www.haaretz.com/west-bank/2025-12-25/ty-article/.premium/idf-reservist-caught-on-video-driving-tractor-over-palestinian-praying-on-west-bank-road/0000019b-5652-d1ec-a59f-f7de5bb70000)** > > The IDF Said That the Same Reservist Opened Fire in a Palestinian Village Earlier Thursday While in Civilian Clothes, Acting 'In Severe Violation of His Authority.' The Incidents Come Amid a Wave of Near-daily Israeli Settler Violence Against... ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2025, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5950 "2025-12-26T14:08:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > More ongoing settler brutality against Palestinian civilians in the WB The key difference between the sides on this conflict is that the IDF military police is investigating this guy and he will most likely go to jail. If he was a Palestinian and he did precisely the same thing to Israelis, the Palestinian Authority would be paying him Martyr Fund payments. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5951 "2025-12-26T14:52:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If he was a Palestinian and he did precisely the same thing to Israelis, the Palestinian Authority would be paying him Martyr Fund payments. Not a hypothetical, by the way; just the other day, a terrorist from the West Bank ran over multiple people at different locations before jumping out of his car and stabbing a 19 year old girl to death, then continuing his vehicular rampage. WARNING: Jewish source: [פיגוע משולב: גבר נדרס למוות בבית שאן, בת 19 נרצחה ליד קיבוץ תל יוסף](https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/syotijh711l?utm_source=ynet.app.android&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=general_share&utm_term=syotijh711l&utm_content=Header) He was eventually caught while trying to flee, which means he will continue drawing Martyr Fund payments while sitting in prison until he and a hundred or so other scumbags like him are traded for an Israeli captive. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2025, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5952 "2025-12-27T09:42:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > According to this article, Israel is dropping leaflets in the West Bank saying that Israel is watching Palestinians’ social media accounts, and posting “inciting content”, whatever that means, is a terrorist crime. It means you can’t post incitements to riot. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2025, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5953 "2025-12-27T11:35:52Z")
Only if extremely unwarranted benefit of the doubt is given to an Israeli government who has lied countless times about such issues. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2025, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5954 "2025-12-27T20:39:35Z")
yes, because the people of the West Bank are so trusting and peaceful. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2025, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5955 "2025-12-27T20:49:20Z")
IMO Palestinians are humans like any other, as a group - no better, and no worse, no more or less honest, etc. Certainly no less deserving of basic human rights, like freedom of speech, freedom from assault and brutality, etc. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2025, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5956 "2025-12-27T20:54:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > like freedom of speech, freedom from assault and brutality, etc. Freedom to dig tunnels… What’s the going rate for martyrs adjust for inflation? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2025, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5957 "2025-12-27T22:34:59Z")
I get it - some people think Palestinians aren’t like other humans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=290) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=292)