# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 292
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2025, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5958 "2025-12-28T06:30:50Z")
They voted in a religious based, Iranian funded, war machine focused on the destruction of Israel. The group voted into office is killing any Palestinian opposition to their power base. They pay a stipend to the families of “martyrs” who die doing God’s work against Israel as well as prisoners held by Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2025, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5959 "2025-12-28T07:39:00Z")
Is it possible that Palestinians are just like other people in any other country _and_ that the Israeli military has valid reasons to distrust them? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2025, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5960 "2025-12-28T09:35:03Z")
Elections in Gaza were twenty years ago. Netanyahu has favored Hamas in Gaza over other groups much, much more recently. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2025, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5961 "2025-12-28T09:38:29Z")
Who cares about distrust? Distrust doesn’t commit atrocities, kill thousands of children, or deliberately put incompetent, evangelical Trumper clowns in charge of aid, causing hundreds (at a minimum) of avoidable deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2025, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5962 "2025-12-28T18:21:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Is it possible that Palestinians are just like other people in any other country _and_ that the Israeli military has valid reasons to distrust them? It’s a religious war funded by Iran. Obviously it goes back to earlier wars involving other countries but those countries have moved on. I would say that the Palestinians have not moved on. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2025, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5963 "2025-12-28T18:34:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Elections in Gaza were twenty years ago. And? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Netanyahu has favored Hamas in Gaza over other groups much, much more recently. He has a funny way of showing his love for Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2025, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5964 "2025-12-28T18:41:19Z")
Netanyahu needs Hamas. Only with endless war does he have a chance to stay in power, and stay out of prison. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5965 "2025-12-31T10:48:02Z")
Israel is blocking aid groups, including Doctors Without Borders, from entering Gaza, for bullshit new rules, like barring any orgs with employees who have supported boycotts or international criminal cases for Israeli war crimes: [https://www.npr.org/2025/12/30/g-s1-103986/israel-gaza-aid-ngos](https://www.npr.org/2025/12/30/g-s1-103986/israel-gaza-aid-ngos) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5966 "2025-12-31T12:48:42Z")
> Some aid groups say they didn’t submit the list of Palestinian staff, as Israel demanded, for fear they’d be targeted by Israel, and because of data protection laws in Europe. And sadly, i believe their fear is grounded in fact. 😢 An awful lot of aid workers have been killed, along with the unprecedented number of reporters But this is a he said/she said situation. Israel says: > The Israeli defense body that oversees humanitarian aid to Gaza, COGAT, said that the organizations on the list contribute less than 1% of the total aid going into the Gaza Strip, and that aid will continue to enter from more than 20 organizations that did receive permits to continue operating. Doctors without borders says: > they support around 20% of the hospital beds and a third of births. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5967 "2025-12-31T13:25:08Z")
Considering that Israel has lied routinely, and knowingly put the totally incompetent Trumper bozos GHF in charge of aid, I’m inclined to trust DWB over them. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5968 "2025-12-31T14:49:39Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Some aid groups say they didn’t submit the list of Palestinian staff, as Israel demanded, for fear they’d be targeted by Israel, and because of data protection laws in Europe. Considering how these aid groups have a long history of hiring Hamas members, I have no idea why anyone would expect Israel to allow them to operate in Gaza if they’re unwilling to comply with basic requirements requested by Israel. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > The Israeli defense body that oversees humanitarian aid to Gaza, COGAT, said that the organizations on the list contribute less than 1% of the total aid going into the Gaza Strip, and that aid will continue to enter from more than 20 organizations that did receive permits to continue operating. Oh wow, so it _is_ possible to provide the requested information, at least when your employees aren’t all Hamasniks. Who could have imagined! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5969 "2025-12-31T15:00:20Z")
Of the organizations Israel is allowing in, I wonder how many are incompetent Trumper shops like the GHF? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5970 "2025-12-31T16:41:06Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Oh wow, so it _is_ possible to provide the requested information I don’t think anyone has said it’s impossible. Sadly for all concerned, i think the stated concerns about the safety of aid workers, and whether the Israeli government will target them and their families, is realistic. From the article: > Israel failed to confirm that the data collected from the new regulations wouldn’t be used for military or intelligence purposes, raising serious security concerns, said Athena Rayburn, the executive director of AIDA, an umbrella organization representing over 100 organizations that operate in the Palestinian territories. She noted that more than 500 aid workers have been killed in Gaza during the war. > > “Agreeing for a party to the conflict to vet our staff, especially under the conditions of occupation, is a violation of humanitarian principles, specifically neutrality and independence,” she said. > > Rayburn said organizations expressed their concerns and offered alternatives to submitting staff lists, such as third-party vetting, but that Israel refused to engage in any dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5971 "2025-12-31T16:53:37Z")
When I think good faith efforts to support human rights, I think “Israel refused to engage in any dialogue” with an aid group. Way to go, Israel! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5972 "2025-12-31T19:43:16Z")
When I think of good faith efforts to support human rights, I think of smuggling shit in to Hamas and hiring Hamasniks as aid workers. Oh wait, silly me, that’s not what I think of when I think of supporting human rights; that’s what I think of when I think of supporting _terrorism_. What a silly mistake to make! > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I don’t think anyone has said it’s impossible. Sadly for all concerned, i think the stated concerns about the safety of aid workers, and whether the Israeli government will target them and their families, is realistic. Right, yet twenty other aid groups had no problems providing this info. Why is that? Do they just like it when their workers are killed? Or maybe they’re _not worried about it_ because the people they hire _aren’t Hamasniks_? Hot take, if an aid group is working with a Hamasnik, and info they provide Israel can be used to take said Hamasnik out, that is _precisely_ what I want Israel to do. If the aid group isn’t willing to avoid working with terrorists, they aren’t an aid group and their presence in Gaza is hurting things, not helping. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5973 "2025-12-31T20:13:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > I don’t think anyone has said it’s impossible. Sadly for all concerned, i think the stated concerns about the safety of aid workers, and whether the Israeli government will target them and their families, is realistic. > > Right, yet twenty other aid groups had no problems providing this info. Or decided to risk it, for whatever reason. As i said, the parties with information disagree. I tend to trust doctors without borders more than Israel. I assume you trust Israel more. Neither of us is going to convince the other. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5974 "2025-12-31T20:59:14Z")
Which twenty groups? GHF? Other Trumper bozos? After the clown show of GHF, how could anyone have any trust in Israel to oversee aid to Gazans? Yes, of course I trust DWB over the IDF, and of course I don’t trust the IDF’s assertions about Hamasniks infiltrating aid groups, at least not without rock solid evidence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2026, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5975 "2026-01-02T17:37:02Z")
Three Israeli men who assaulted a pregnant Arab woman and a little girl are released with essentially no punishment (house arrest): [Https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/suspects-in-assault-on-pregnant-arab-in-jaffa-released-to-house-arrest/](Https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/suspects-in-assault-on-pregnant-arab-in-jaffa-released-to-house-arrest/) Really leaning into the whole apartheid thing. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2026, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5976 "2026-01-02T18:33:00Z")
They are only suspects, they haven’t been convicted. Maybe they should be kept locked up. But they certainly shouldn’t be punished until after the investigation is complete and they are tried. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2026, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5977 "2026-01-02T18:45:12Z")
If I’m reading the article correctly, they aren’t being actively prosecuted, and the local Arab-Jewish unity organization is outraged that they’re being let off essentially without punishment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=291) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=293)