# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 294
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2026, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5998 "2026-01-03T22:29:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They didn’t have to do this – there are plenty of aid experts in the world who have not been accused by the IDF of collaborating with Hamas. But Israel didn’t ask them – they put the bozos of the GHF in charge. Really, now. These aid experts didn’t say that working with Hamas was the only way to deliver aid, and that Israel is a colonialist state therefore they’d be unwilling to work with it to distribute aid? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But Israel didn’t ask them – they put the bozos of the GHF in charge. Israel’s decision, and Israel can and should be judged for making such an awful decision that lead to avoidable civilian deaths. See, you don’t get to skip from “they’re bozos” to “avoidable civilian deaths” just because “but Trump”. I haven’t seen convincing evidence that this was the case at all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2026, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/5999 "2026-01-03T22:33:28Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Really, now. These aid experts didn’t say that working with Hamas was the only way to deliver aid, and that Israel is a colonialist state therefore they’d be unwilling to work with it to distribute aid? You have a cite that every single aid expert on Earth said these things? That’d be amazing! If this is true, then GHF wasn’t just the “second worst option”, they were literally the _only other option on Earth_! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2026, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6000 "2026-01-03T22:35:18Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > See, you don’t get to skip from “they’re bozos” to “avoidable civilian deaths” just because “but Trump”. I haven’t seen convincing evidence that this was the case at all. Right. Trumper clowns with zero experience just happened to stumble onto a way to feed and provide sufficient aid for every single hungry Gazan, contrary to every independent report out there about the results of the famine. That’s definitely a strong thread to cling to! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2026, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6001 "2026-01-03T22:50:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You have a cite that every single aid expert on Earth said these things? That’d be amazing! Nope! Amazing how that’s not a claim I made, eh? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Right. Trumper clowns with zero experience just happened to stumble onto a way to feed and provide sufficient aid for every single hungry Gazan, contrary to every independent report out there about the results of the famine. These would be the “reports” that’s aid that thousands of people died a day for many days at a time? And then when no one actually could show that even a fraction of that many people died of starvation they just plugged their ears and said “LOOK AT THE PROJECTIONS WE WERE RIGHT”? Are those the “results of the famine” you are talking about? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2026, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6002 "2026-01-03T22:52:37Z")
Without journalists, it’s awfully hard to confirm. I guess we’ll see. Do you think there’s any likelihood that zero Gazan civilians died avoidable deaths from lack of aid? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2026, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6003 "2026-01-03T22:59:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you think there’s any likelihood that zero Gazan civilians died avoidable deaths from lack of aid? Nope, but I think the biggest barriers to aid distribution have absolutely nothing to do with Israel. During the worst shortages in Gaza, there was plenty of food squirreled away by Hamas already in Gaza. Giving collaborator groups in bed with Hamas more aid would do nothing to change that. Taking aid distribution away from Hamas _did_ change that. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Without journalists, Gaza, of course, is not “without journalists”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2026, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6004 "2026-01-03T23:01:09Z")
Without independent journalists. IDF-curated and approved journalists obviously don’t count, any more than Trump’s favorite reporters would count. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2026, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6005 "2026-01-03T23:54:38Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > During the worst shortages in Gaza, there was plenty of food squirreled away by Hamas already in Gaza. …you have provided zero credible evidence of this. And the amount of food needed to be “squirrelled away” in order to contribute significantly to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza would be _impossible_ to hide in the books. Parts of Gaza descended into famine because the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation were incompetent, bumbling fools. Because hundreds of food distribution points were reduced down to just _four_. Because the GHF _had no food distribution in the north_. > [@Babale](#): > > That they’re miles and miles and miles better than the terrorist collaborators that are UNRWA and affiliated groups? If by “terrorist collaborators” you mean “working with the legitimate governing authorities” then you should say that because the former suggests they are actually in collaboration with terrorist activities whilst the latter is just what _aid agencies do all around the world_. Because the priority is getting aid to people, and you need to cooperate with the governing authorities in order to do so. Because when you don’t do that, you end up with the complete fucking disaster you got when Israel and the IDF took over. Once again on GHF’s watch parts of Gaza [went into famine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine). Now that GHF are no longer in control of food distribution, [the famine has ended](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/19/gaza-famine-hunger-food-shortages-winter-flooding-un). These are undeniable facts. Both Israel’s siege and GHF poor distribution strategy _caused_ the famine. [2500 people](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/save-what-remains-gaza-community-perspectives-aid-survival-and-humanity-during-genocide-september-2025) were reportedly killed trying to get aid from the GHF. 18,000 were injured. These aren’t theoretical deaths. It isn’t “propaganda.” They were wiped from the registry. _Zero_ people have been shot and killed trying to get food from aid distribution points since the GHF packed up and left. Because shooting people trying to get food just _isn’t fucking normal_. The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is indefensible. UNRWA has a mandate from the UN to do the job they are doing, and Israel need to stop interfering with them. They have been asked over and over again to provide evidence for the many allegations they have made over the years, and they have _failed to do so_. It’s important to read the advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice released in October: > **[The ICJ Advisory Opinion on Israel’s obligations - key conclusions relating...](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/unrwa-press-release-26oct25/)** > >   26 October 2025 1. On 22 October 2025, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) delivered its advisory opinion concerning Israel’s obligations regarding the presence and activities of the United Nations, other international organizations, and... > [@ICJ](#): > > The opinion provides an authoritative assessment of Israel’s legal obligations from the principal judicial organ of the United Nations. **It resoundingly supports UNRWA’s mandate and continued operations in the OPT. The Court found that, as the Occupying Power, Israel is obliged to lift restrictions on UNRWA’s operations and agree to and facilitate relief provided by the Agency. The opinion also recognizes the unique and sustained connection between UNRWA’s mandate and the realization of human rights for the Palestinian people, including their right to self-determination**. These rights underpin and reinforce Israel’s obligations to respect the mandate, status, privileges and immunities of UNRWA in the OPT. > … > In reaching its conclusions, the Court **expressly rejected Israel’s allegations against UNRWA concerning its alleged lack of impartiality and/or neutrality.** Specifically, the Court **dismissed Israel’s arguments that security concerns arising from unsubstantiated “infiltration” by Hamas justified restrictions on UNRWA’s operations in the OPT.** In that regard, the Court emphasized that: > > _UNRWA has thus been deeply integrated into the local infrastructure of the Occupied Palestinian Territory, providing for the most basic needs of the local population, including food, potable water, healthcare and shelter. The Court recalls the scale and urgency of the needs of the population of the Gaza Strip, and UNRWA’s unique and sustained connection with the population of the Occupied Palestinian Territory. The Court considers that, in the current circumstances, it is not possible to replicate the capacity of the United Nations, acting through UNRWA, to ensure that the population of the Gaza Strip is adequately provided for. UNRWA cannot be replaced on short notice and without a proper transition plan._ (Bolding mine) There is no justification for the continued vilification of UNRWA and its affiliates. These are the kind of shenanigans Israel has been doing for decades: > **[Israel allowing traders to bring into Gaza ‘dual-use’ items barred from aid...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/01/israel-allowing-traders-to-bring-into-gaza-dual-use-items-barred-from-aid-organisations)** > > Sources say generators and tent poles restricted from humanitarian organisations but commercial shipments allowed in > [@The Guardian](#): > > Israel is running a parallel system of controls for shipments into Gaza, allowing commercial traders to bring goods into the territory that are barred for humanitarian organisations. > > Basic life-saving supplies including generators and tent poles are on a long Israeli blacklist of “dual-use” items. The Israeli government says entry of these items must be severely restricted because they could be exploited by Hamas or other armed groups for military ends. > > However, for at least a month, Israeli authorities have allowed businesses to transport multiple dual-use items into [Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/gaza), including generators and metal pallets, which are more durable in winter rains and mud than wooden alternatives. When we talk about how much “aid” is being allowed into Gaza a reminder that the number of trucks includes both legitimate aid _and_ commercial businesses bringing in items _for sale_. And so far Israel have only ever let in no more than _half_ of what was agreed upon in the ceasefire. More from the article: > [@](#): > > US forces deployed to the CMCC arrived in October prepared to launch a major logistics effort to get aid supplies into Gaza. > > They were surprised and confused to find the biggest challenge was political, and began clashing with Israeli counterparts over some of the restrictions almost immediately, said multiple sources briefed on meetings at the base. > > An early confrontation was over tent poles. Shelter is a critical need as winter sets in because Israeli attacks have destroyed nine out of 10 Palestinian homes, but Israel deems metal tent poles needed for sturdy winter-proof tents “dual use”. > > US officers at the CMCC rapidly drew up a list of at least a dozen key humanitarian items they wanted removed from the dual-use list, with tent poles near the top. Weeks later Israel has not lifted restrictions on any of them. Let’s be crystal clear on what the Americans found here. They thought the impediments to getting aid through to Palestinians in Gaza would have been _logistical_. But they are almost entirely _political_. Tent poles are “dual use” and are banned. _Except_ if a business wants to sell them. Israel are deliberately inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part. There can be no other conclusion. Israel are fully capable of ending this humanitarian disaster. That they are not is a deliberate choice. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6006 "2026-01-04T00:12:33Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > disaster you got when Israel and the IDF took over. …its too late to edit, but I intended to say “GHF” instead of “IDF”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6007 "2026-01-04T02:10:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Without independent journalists. Al Jazeera news has at least 4 named reported in Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6008 "2026-01-04T02:14:28Z")
What do they have to say about the famine? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6009 "2026-01-04T02:15:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Al Jazeera news has at least 4 named reported in Gaza. …they are Palestinians living in Gaza. Every single journalist (not embedded with the IDF) in Gaza are Palestinians currently living in Gaza that are often either employed or contracted by outside organisations like Reuters or Al Jazeera. I don’t want to speak for iiandyiiii, but in this context “independent journalists” really means foreign journalists that cannot be accused of the inherent “bias” that Palestinian journalists are constantly being accused of. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6010 "2026-01-04T02:22:45Z")
Yes, that’s what I meant since Babale has made it clear he does not trust Palestinian journalists. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6011 "2026-01-04T05:02:58Z")
If they are named and known to Hamas then their reporting is subject to control by Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6012 "2026-01-04T12:18:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If they are named and known to Hamas then their reporting is subject to control by Hamas. …one of the largely untold story about the deliberate, targeted assassination’s of journalists in Gaza isn’t about the killings of the journalists themselves. But its the story of their _families_. > [@](#): > > According to monitoring and documentation by the Syndicate’s Freedoms Committee, the systematic targeting of journalists’ families by Israeli forces was extensively documented in 2023, 2024, and 2025, claiming the lives of approximately 706 family members in Gaza. > **[Palestinian Journalists Syndicate: Israel killed 706 family members of...](https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/165699)** Because many of those journalists weren’t targeted while they were working in the field. They were targeted in their homes. While they were sleeping. Killing wives, husbands, grandparents, children, babies. For example this from 2023: > [@](#): > > On 9 December, an apparent airstrike on the home of Ms. Ola Attallah, a prominent journalist, in Al Daraj area in eastern Gaza City, killed her along with nine members of her family. Ms. Attallah had worked for different local and international media outlets, including Al Anadolu news agency. Since 7 October, she had been very active reporting on the desperate plight and suffering of civilians in Gaza and the terrible toll that this conflict has taken on them. > > … > > On 24 October, Al Jazeera viewers witnessed correspondent Mr. Wael Dahdouh receive news on air of the killing of his wife, son, daughter and grandson. On 8 December, a strike on the home of Mr Abdalhamid Abdelati, a journalist and the Head of Al Sawt Al Sha’b Radio station, reportedly killed seven members of his family, including his mother, sister, and brother. Mr. Abdelati, was not at home at the time of the strike. > > **…** > > An alleged Israeli strike destroyed a house in the vicinity of Jabalia Camp on 6 November, killing 22 members of the same extended family of Mr. Momen Al Sharafi, including his parents, siblings and their children. This is one of four incidents since 7 October in which Israeli Forces allegedly struck the locations of reporters working for Al Jazeera and their family members. > > Of grave concern are the widely reported claims that journalists and media workers have received intimidatory and threatening phone calls from Israeli security personnel. > **[Killings of journalists and their family members in Gaza - OHCHR press release...](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/killings-of-journalists-and-their-family-members-in-gaza-dec14-2023/)** > > (Please note this version has been corrected, paragraph 5) The UN Human Rights Office in Occupied Palestinian Territory is alarmed by an unprecedented rate of journalists and media workers who have been killed in Gaza since 7 October. OHCHR has... It was a pattern that started in the early days of the war and continues to today. Back in January 2024 Heba Al-Abadla was killed in her home along with her daughter and other family members. > [@](#): > > Heba Al-Abadla, a 30-year-old journalist and host for the local Al-Azhar radio station, owned by Al-Azhar University in Gaza, and the co-founder of the [Social Media Club-Palestine](https://www.facebook.com/SMCPALESTINE/posts/pfbid02p1WR12CzXYdZjfNQEU4zwXEUxhzahkab3uFmQ7jBPkL8LNuoqwxLUGv88UGN8E8Hl), was killed along with her daughter Judy and several family members in an Israeli airstrike on Khan Yunis, according to [media](https://www.saba.ye/ar/news3295007.htm) [reports](https://www.alaraby.co.uk/society/%D9%87%D9%83%D8%B0%D8%A7-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%B4%D9%87%D8%AF%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D9%87%D8%A8%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%AF%D9%84%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%A3%D9%85%D9%87%D8%A7-%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%86%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%A7), the [Palestinian Journalists’ Syndicate](https://www.facebook.com/PALESTINIANJOURNALISTSSYNDICATE/posts/pfbid02Z2d1XiYYS3Y3snvhjABB933V37SCz2TWptXzobjKmho9D2YXJ3HyDcUpLgvtVz48l), [the New Arab](https://www.newarab.com/news/israeli-bombing-khan-younis-kills-gaza-journalist-family), [Wafa](https://info.wafa.ps/ar_page.aspx?id=NYp1Sca29233093395aNYp1Sc), and [SKeyes](https://www.skeyesmedia.org/ar/News/News/10-01-2024/11280).​ > **[Heba Al-Abadla - Committee to Protect Journalists](https://cpj.org/data/people/heba-al-abadla/)** And to give you an idea of how total the devastation is in Gaza right now her body was _only recovered last week_. So when you say things like “if they are named and known to Hamas then their reporting is subject to control by Hamas” then I’d really like to know where you got this information from. I’m not so arrogant to proclaim that no reporting was _ever_ subject to control by Hamas. However much of the reporting out of Gaza is _live-streamed_. And much of what isn’t is just straight up _reportage_. There isn’t any need to be “subject to Hamas control” because the reality on the ground is horrific enough. And none of that justifies deliberately targeting journalists because if it does then American journalists embedded with the IDF are _also_ legitimate targets. Their reporting is ALSO subject to IDF approval and control. We should be loudly condemning the killing of journalists in Gaza. As we should be condemning the targeted killings of doctors and nurses and aid workers and academics in Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6013 "2026-01-04T12:31:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If they are named and known to Hamas then their reporting is subject to control by Hamas. Many of the supposed “reporters” aren’t just _known to Hamas_, they appear on Hamas’ own internal lists, sometimes as fighters and other times as paid propagandists. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6014 "2026-01-04T13:04:25Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Many of the supposed “reporters” aren’t just _known to Hamas_, they appear on Hamas’ own internal lists, sometimes as fighters and other times as paid propagandists. …there is of course no independent verification of these claims. The IDF for example would have us believe that Hussam Shabat, who I followed on Twitter and was posting news reportage all day and night was also doing super-secret-double duty as a _sniper_. The only evidence of this was a _spreadsheet_ and some documents from 2019. Even if he was a sniper in 2019, if that made him a legitimate target for assassination then _every_ former IDF sniper, even if they now work as journalists, are _also_ legitimate targets. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6015 "2026-01-04T13:19:21Z")
Or, more pointedly, every Israeli who ever served in the military is a legitimate target for Hamas, including most of those young adults kidnapped and murdered on October 7th. I reject that interpretation of legitimate targets. I think it’s disgusting when applied to Israelis, and also when applied to Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6016 "2026-01-04T13:32:47Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Or, more pointedly, every Israeli who ever served in the military is a legitimate target for Hamas, including most of those young adults kidnapped and murdered on October 7th. Every Israeli and every Arab citizen of Israel and every Thai foreign worker is a “legitimate” target for Hamas, whether they have history in the IDF or are a literal baby. What the hell is this nonsense? “Oooooh no, now Hamas will target your civilians!” I don’t know if you saw the news, but Hamas eagerly and brutally murdered hundreds of civilians, including children, by hand; they decapitated Thai foreign workers who have nothing to do with Israel or Zionism with a shovel, because that’s the sort of people they are. “Oh no, if you kill Hamasniks you will give them an excuse to murder Israeli civilians” is literally the worst argument I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6017 "2026-01-04T13:37:09Z")
The point is that it’s wrong to call someone an enemy combatant just based on some nebulous association with the IDF, and it’s also wrong if that nebulous association is with Hamas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=293) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=295)