# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 295
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6018 "2026-01-04T13:43:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The point is that it’s wrong to call someone an enemy combatant just based on some nebulous association with the IDF, and it’s also wrong if that nebulous association is with Hamas We truly do live in different universes if you consider being a Hamas fighter to be a “nebulous association” with Hamas. Is Sinwar himself only loosely aligned with them too? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6019 "2026-01-04T13:52:18Z")
Who’s a Hamas fighter? Every journalist killed? Every Gazan civilian killed? AFAICT if someone is on record having delivered coffee to Sinwar’s secretary, he’s a Hamasnik and therefore the IDF counts him as a Hamas fighter. Like BB said – if Shabat was an enemy combatant based on years-old records, then so is every IDF veteran. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6020 "2026-01-04T14:02:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > AFAICT if someone is on record having delivered coffee to Sinwar’s secretary, he’s a Hamasnik and therefore the IDF counts him as a Hamas fighter. Really, you think Hamas’ internal documents of fighters and martyrs include people who delivered coffee to Sinwar’s secretary? Cite? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Like BB said – if Shabat was an enemy combatant based on years-old records, then so is every IDF veteran. The records that show that I’m employed at my company are like 8 years old. Does that mean I quit 7 years ago? BB is pulling from sources that intentionally obfuscate this by implying these lists haven’t been updated in many years. That this particular terrorist began his terrorism 7 years ago and therefore that’s how old the record listing him as a terrorist is does not mean that he is no longer a terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6021 "2026-01-04T14:12:40Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > BB is pulling from sources that intentionally obfuscate this by implying these lists haven’t been updated in many years. …I’m not obfuscating anything. Here is the sum total of the evidence that Shabat was a sniper. [https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/idf-press-releases-israel-at-war/march-25-pr/information-regarding-the-affiliation-of-the-terrorist-hossam-basel-abdul-karim-shabat-to-the-hamas-terrorist-organization/](https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/idf-press-releases-israel-at-war/march-25-pr/information-regarding-the-affiliation-of-the-terrorist-hossam-basel-abdul-karim-shabat-to-the-hamas-terrorist-organization/) The claims: that he “participated in military training” in 2019. Then an assertion without any evidence at all that “during the war, Hossam carried out terrorist attacks against IDF troops and Israeli civilians.” Thats it. Thats fucking it. There are two screenshots: one of a spreadsheet _claiming_ they are a sniper. And a list of training participants from 2019. That shouldn’t be enough evidence to put anyone on a “hit list.” And yet here we are. There is zero evidence that he was a “terrorist” and there isn’t anything here to convince me that they were a sniper or that they ever carried out terrorist attacks against IDF troops and civilians. But if you’ve got access to evidence that shows this then, by all means, feel free to share. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6022 "2026-01-04T14:17:39Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Every Israeli and every Arab citizen of Israel and every Thai foreign worker is a “legitimate” target for Hamas If they are legitimate targets, who should anyone care that Hamas killed them? Wars happen. People get killed. Yawn. Seriously? That’s a horrible moral outlook. Are you saying, “yes, we are as morally reprehensible as Hamas”? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6023 "2026-01-04T14:30:41Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > If they are legitimate targets, who should anyone care that Hamas killed them? Wars happen. People get killed. Yawn. I’m not saying that they are legitimate targets. I am saying that Hamas already treats them as legitimate targets, and therefore the argument that if Israel does this or that then Hamas will target Israeli ex military personnel is not a convincing one. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Seriously? That’s a horrible moral outlook. Are you saying, “yes, we are as morally reprehensible as Hamas”? Nope, because this guy was targeted due to being a Hamas fighter who took part in military action against Israel. There is quite literally no comparison between that and Hamas’ behavior, of butchering children and decapitating foreign Thai workers with shovels. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6024 "2026-01-04T14:41:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Nope, because this guy was targeted due to being a Hamas fighter who took part in military action against Israel. …you claimed he was a “terrorist.” Now you are claiming they took part in military action against Israel. But there is no evidence that either of those things happened. We have screenshots of two documents: neither of them have been independently verified. I concede he _might_ have received training in 2019. But that isn’t enough to kill him. He was a reporter. And he was targeted and killed _because he was a reporter._ > [@Babale](#): > > There is quite literally no comparison between that and Hamas’ behavior, of butchering children and decapitating foreign Thai workers with shovels. Israel bombs have killed 20,000 children. Israels siege literally caused a famine. Israel’s refusal to allow in the kind of aid desperately needed has killed at least five babies so far from hypothermia. There are thousands of people not able to access healthcare. Tens of thousands sleeping in floodwaters. I watched babies being scraped up and put into rubbish bags because that was all they had. I saw a little girl who got blown out of her house and she was left hanging by her neck, half of her body blown away. Nobody is denying the atrocities that Hamas committed on October the 7th and the people responsible for it should be made to pay. But the IDF are _also_ butchering children. They are also decapitating people. Palestinians are people too and _they do not deserve this either_. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6025 "2026-01-04T14:51:38Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > and therefore the argument that if Israel does this or that then Hamas will target Israeli ex military personnel is not a convincing one. I did not make that argument. Obviously, Hamas _did_ slaughter all those non-combatants. The argument i made was that by your reasoning, they were _justified_ in doing so. You are excusing their actions as ordinary acts of war. You also appear to be saying that it’s okay if Israel drops to the moral standards of Hamas ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2026, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6026 "2026-01-06T18:20:13Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Here is the sum total of the evidence that Shabat was a sniper. > > [https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/idf-press-releases-israel-at-war/march-25-pr/information-regarding-the-affiliation-of-the-terrorist-hossam-basel-abdul-karim-shabat-to-the-hamas-terrorist-organization/](https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/idf-press-releases-israel-at-war/march-25-pr/information-regarding-the-affiliation-of-the-terrorist-hossam-basel-abdul-karim-shabat-to-the-hamas-terrorist-organization/) > > The claims: that he “participated in military training” in 2019. Then an assertion without any evidence at all that “during the war, Hossam carried out terrorist attacks against IDF troops and Israeli civilians.” > > Thats it. Thats fucking it. There are two screenshots: one of a spreadsheet _claiming_ they are a sniper. And a list of training participants from 2019. > > That shouldn’t be enough evidence to put anyone on a “hit list.” And yet here we are. There is zero evidence that he was a “terrorist” and there isn’t anything here to convince me that they were a sniper or that they ever carried out terrorist attacks against IDF troops and civilians. > > But if you’ve got access to evidence that shows this then, by all means, feel free to share. @Babale, you never replied to this. Why are you sure Hossam Shabat was an enemy combatant? The “evidence” the IDF has released doesn’t remotely prove this. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6027 "2026-01-07T00:53:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The “evidence” the IDF has released doesn’t remotely prove this. …arguably the evidence they have on Shabat is the strongest evidence they have released for _any_ of the journalists they have targeted. I’ve looked at what has been released so far. It’s just unverified screenshots of spreadsheets. Occasionally its “who they worked for.” Sometimes it’s a blurry, out of focus photo. It’s just impossible to take these accusations from the IDF seriously any more. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6028 "2026-01-07T02:08:54Z")
…from earlier in the year: > [@](#): > > Prior to October 2023, there were 1130 patients receiving dialysis in 7 centres with an annual growth rate in prevalent dialysis numbers of 13%. The current military offensive has left just 2 functioning dialysis units dialysing 715 patients. This has led to rationing of dialysis which in turn has caused to patients die from entirely preventable but fatal complications of kidney failure such as hyperkalaemia and pulmonary oedema. > … > The results have been devastating with 44% of the prevalent dialysis population in Gaza being killed either through direct injury or being unable to access dialysis. Furthermore, it is likely that many of the estimated 450 kidney transplant patients have lost their transplants and have died due to lack of access to immunosuppressive medication because of the Israeli blockade1. [https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r361/rr-0](https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r361/rr-0) From a reporter on the ground, yesterday: > [@](#): > > In the Gaza Strip, nearly half of dialysis patients have passed away—not because the disease was stronger, but because treatment disappeared, and more than 70% of their medications are no longer available. Every day, a new name is added to a record of silent death the world does not see. Emergency departments are on the brink of collapse: doctors working without rest, patients exceeding capacity, while hospitals operate at more than 150% of their ability—without medicines, without supplies, and without the minimum standards of safety. More than 55% of essential medicines are missing, and 70% of medical consumables are unavailable, until treatment has become a privilege rather than a right. Entire specialties are facing shortages exceeding 100%, meaning even emergency cases are left without rescue. > While the news coverage has died down over Gaza, its important to understand what is still happening on the ground. The healthcare system didn’t magically get rehabilitated after the ceasefire. Its still on its _knees_. Essential medical equipment is largely still being blocked, as are medicines and consumables. And people are suffering. And dying. From a doctor in Gaza: > [@](#): > > Two weeks ago, Dr. Mohammad Nabhan, a dermatologist with no known chronic medical conditions, presented with acute and severe respiratory symptoms. Recognizing the seriousness of his condition, he requested immediate transfer to hospital care. He was admitted to the intensive care unit, where he remained for three days before his death was formally announced. > … > Over the past two weeks, there has been a noticeable and alarming increase in patients presenting with severe respiratory illness. On one day alone, out of 103 patients evaluated at the clinic, 68 exhibited a strikingly similar symptom profile: high-grade fever, significant shortness of breath, severe arthralgia, and anosmia with ageusia. These symptoms are identical to those I have personally experienced over the past five days. > > The primary concern is not merely the illness itself, but the speed with which it progresses to a life-threatening condition within an already severely compromised environment. In Gaza, illness is not afforded the margin of time required for proper clinical observation. Diagnostic capacity is extremely limited, early intervention is often impossible, and disease progression occurs in the context of profound physical exhaustion, malnutrition, cold exposure, displacement in tents, and a healthcare system operating far beyond its functional capacity. > … > This is not an isolated incident, nor an isolated death. The current pattern may represent the early phase of a broader and more dangerous outbreak, one that will not be measured solely by case numbers, but by excess mortality resulting from delayed care, lack of treatment, and systemic failure. > From another doctor in Gaza: > [@](#): > > A ruthless virus is sweeping through G@za. > People are falling one after another. > My sister and her children are infected , exhausted, deeply ill. > It feels like a suffocating flu, frighteningly similar to COVID: > fever that burns the body, > a cough that steals breath, > fatigue that crushes the bones. > From “Humanitarian response by the UN and humanitarian partners during the second month of the October 2025 ceasefire”: > [@](#): > > Although the UN and its partners were able to significantly increase the volume of supplies entering Gaza, **administrative and bureaucratic impediments continued during the second month of the ceasefire.** These impediments slowed the response and prevented the entry of aid and restoration of services at the scale to meet immense needs following two years of intense conflict, destruction and displacement (see below). While the amount of emergency food and nutrition supplies increased significantly, the entry of shelter items, water and sanitation equipment, agricultural inputs, construction materials and education supplies has remained limited. > [@](#): > > Since mid-November, repeated heavy rains and flooding have further compounded people’s vulnerability, leading to destruction and damage of tents and makeshift shelters, loss of belongings, sewage contamination and heightened protection and health risks, particularly for persons with disabilities, older persons, and other vulnerable groups. OCHA estimates that Storm Byron, which struck Gaza on 10 and 11 December, affected nearly 55,000 families in 141 displacement sites across all five governorates, with Gaza city recording the highest number of reported incidents, followed by Khan Younis and Deir al Balah. > [@](#): > > Overall, between 11 October and 10 December 2025, **less than two per cent of cargo was looted or otherwise intercepted** , according to the UN 2720 dashboard, **with all incidents recorded in the first month** , underscoring the critical importance of continuing scaling up aid entry into Gaza to reassure people of sustained and predictable delivery. Over 98 per cent of all collected cargo safely reached warehouses for onward distribution to people in need through the respective cluster’s network of partners. I just needed to highlight this. Since the GHF and the IDF have stepped back, the problems with looting and interceptions has _gone_. > **[Report: Humanitarian response by the UN and humanitarian partners during the...](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/report-humanitarian-response-un-and-humanitarian-partners-during-second-month-october-2025-ceasefire)** > > During the second month of the ceasefire, from 11 November to 10 December, the UN and its humanitarian partners continued scaling up humanitarian assistance in Gaza in accordance with the 60-day response plan , increasing the delivery of aid and... There is, as always, much more at the link. But the picture is quite clear. There have been a substantial increase in the amount of aid getting in. However, that is offset by the fact that the increases _are well below what the people of Gaza are needing._ Israel urgently needs to fully comply with the ceasefire agreement. Which means allowing in at least 600 trucks per day. Which means opening the Rafah crossing. Which means they need to stop the daily bombings and attacks. And they need to let in doctors and nurses and aid workers and independent reporters. They need to let in construction equipment and civil defense teams so the body recovery can be done properly. They need to allow the rehabilitation of the healthcare system. They need to let in temporary housing. Because what is happening on the ground right now is _unconscionable_. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6029 "2026-01-26T16:15:19Z")
> **[Israel's recovery of the last hostage's remains in Gaza opens the way for...](https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-hamas-rafah-26-1-2026-c0b373a26ef7f4524b9b2bdad766cfda)** > > Israel says the remains of the final hostage in Gaza have been recovered, clearing the way for the next phase of the ceasefire that stopped the Israel-Hamas war. > Netanyahu’s office said Sunday that once the search for Gvili was finished, Israel would open the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt, which Palestinians see as their lifeline to the world. It has been largely shut since May 2024, except for a short period in early 2025. So that should be re-opened very shortly. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6030 "2026-01-26T16:16:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > @Babale, you never replied to this. Missed your message at the time. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why are you sure Hossam Shabat was an enemy combatant? …because Hamas admits that he was a Hamas fighter. This is boring. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The “evidence” the IDF has released doesn’t remotely prove this. You’ve made it clear that you feel that anything the IDF puts out should be assumed to be a lie. I don’t agree at all. I think the evidence the IDF has released (no need for scare quotes there) is plenty. * * * In other news, despite Hamas trying their best to obfuscate and hide him (including their latest trick of claiming they had a lead and starting a major “search effort” in an entirely different part of Gaza), the last hostage’s body has been recovered by the IDF. Hamas claims that they are ready to move on to Stage B. Great - time for disarmament. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6031 "2026-01-26T16:52:58Z")
Where (cite) does Hamas admit he was a fighter, specifically? I looked and couldn’t find anything not already mentioned in the thread (the claim about training from '19). As far as trusting the IDF, you are correct. I see no more reason to trust them than to trust the Trump administration when it comes to justifying their killings. AFAICT they haven’t even tried putting out any independently confirmable evidence. Maybe, like the Trump administration, the IDF now assumes there’s no point to even trying to engage in proof or justification that anyone aside from their hard core believers would accept. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6032 "2026-01-26T17:33:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Where (cite) does Hamas admit he was a fighter, specifically? …is this a serious question? In their internal documentation obviously. Hamas: “We trained this guy as a sniper.” Some Westerners: “What could this _mean_? It is completely impossible to tell.” > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As far as trusting the IDF, you are correct. I see no more reason to trust them than to trust the Trump administration when it comes to justifying their killings. Cool! 👍 😃 👍 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6033 "2026-01-26T18:10:11Z")
So the IDF says Hamas says he was trained as a sniper in 2019? That’s the final answer? Because that’s not at all “Hamas admitted it”. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6034 "2026-01-26T18:12:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because that’s not at all “Hamas admitted it”. Putting someone in a list of your fighters who you trained and listing him as a sniper is not the same thing as admitting that he is your sniper? OK. Interesting opinion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6035 "2026-01-26T18:14:51Z")
Hamas says they put him on a list? Or the IDF says that Hamas says they put him on a list? Which is it? Those are two different things. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6036 "2026-01-26T18:17:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Hamas says they put him on a list? Or the IDF says that Hamas says they put him on a list? Which is it?. The IDF presented the list that they found in one of the many Hamas bases they destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6037 "2026-01-26T18:19:14Z")
If you’re just parroting the IDF, with no independent confirmation, what’s the point? You can’t honestly expect anyone to just believe the IDF, with no independent confirmation, right? Do you really expect that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=294) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=296)