# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 301
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6138 "2026-05-19T19:10:21Z")
The text I quoted, plus quotes in the article from IDF officers, indicates they see the posts as more of a problem than the conduct itself. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6139 "2026-05-20T21:39:06Z")
…when I first saw this video this morning I thought there _must_ have been more context to it. I thought it was “staged”. Or it could have been a protest. But no. This is real footage of how members of the flotilla, who were abducted in international waters while trying to break the illegal blockade of Gaza, are being treated. > It matches up with how flotilla members claim they were treated while they were in captivity. Greta Thunberg said she was assaulted. Chris Smalls says he was beaten. Anna Liedtke claims she was raped. None of it caught on camera. But as we know, even if it is caught on camera, the perpetrators don’t face consequences. As bad as it is for these flotilla members, it’s likely for most of them their time in captivity will be relatively short. But for the thousands of Palestinians currently in custody, many of them without charge, this and worse is a daily reality. “[Welcome to Hell](https://www.btselem.org/publications/202408_welcome_to_hell)” is the way B’Tselem describes it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6140 "2026-05-20T21:53:16Z")
The strangest thing about the hostility to the flotilla is how pointless it is (not the flotilla itself, which is meant to focus attention, but opposing it) – what’s the risk to Israel or the IDF? What’s the worst these people are going to do? They’re not bringing weapons. Just from a PR perspective, it’s crazy to me that they’re not just letting them come, drop off a handful of supplies, and then sending them on their way. They’d rather further torpedo their reputation, and let murderous fanatics like Ben Gvir get media attention for his brutality, then allow a relatively tiny amount of aid to make it to Gazan shores. ISTM it’s the Trumpification of Israel and the IDF. The cruelty is the point, now. Craziness and brutality for its own sake. Not even worth the effort of applying a thin patina of decency and humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6141 "2026-05-20T23:24:26Z")
So Ben-Gvir orders prisoners tortured and proudly broadcasts it to the world, drawing universal condemnation, including from _Mike fucking Huckabee_. Meanwhile, Smotrich orders the ethnic cleansing of a Palestinian village in retaliation for the ICC issuing a warrant against him. > Smotrich called a press conference to attack the ICC and publish an order for the eviction of all residents of Khan al-Ahmar, home to more than 700 people. It lies in the heart of the occupied West Bank, about 6 miles (10km) east of the Old City of Jerusalem, ringed by Israeli settlements. And now Babale will come in and Zionsplain how these people being in government has absolutely no real world implications and Bibi is just playing brilliant 4 dimensional chess, and anyone who says otherwise doesn’t understand how Israeli coalition politics work. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2026, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6142 "2026-05-21T03:29:08Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Smotrich called a press conference to attack the ICC Where is the cite for this quote? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2026, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6143 "2026-05-21T03:31:39Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > So Ben-Gvir orders prisoners tortured and proudly broadcasts it to the world, drawing universal condemnation, Including from Bibi, though I realize this doesn’t fit the usual narrative you’re trying to push. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > And now Babale will come in and Zionsplain how these people being in government has absolutely no real world implications and Bibi is just playing brilliant 4 dimensional chess, and anyone who says otherwise doesn’t understand how Israeli coalition politics work. Oh hey, I should have finished your post before replying, this is even funnier. Did you already know that Bibi condemned Ben Gvir? Is that what your comment is trying to get ahead of? Anyways, Bibi’s government is on the process of falling apart and Ben Gvir hasn’t polled well enough to score a seat in an election for many years now, so hopefully we will never have to talk about him again very soon. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2026, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6144 "2026-05-21T09:30:36Z")
Moderating: > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > And now Babale will come in and Zionsplain how these people being in government has absolutely no real world implications and Bibi is just playing brilliant 4 dimensional chess, and anyone who says otherwise doesn’t understand how Israeli coalition politics work. Take this kind of post to the pit. This is MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2026, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6145 "2026-05-21T12:36:33Z")
Sorry! I thought this was the Pit thread for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2026, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6146 "2026-05-21T12:38:44Z")
Sure, he “condemned” him. Condemnation is cheap. Did he fire him? Or is he still in the Cabinet? Did this “condemnation” include formal apologies or financial compensation for the victims? (Crickets) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2026, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6147 "2026-05-21T13:08:58Z")
[https://archive.ph/3osoA](https://archive.ph/3osoA) Very pessimistic interview with an Israeli academic on the war and situation in Gaza - in short, Hamas still has plenty of power, the humanitarian situation in Gaza is dire with respect to access to medicine, education, and other basics of society beyond just food, Israel is still brutalizing civilians in the West Bank with no signs of stopping, and no one appears to have any path out of the status quo. So tens of thousands of civilians dead with nothing to show for it. But at least Netanyahu appears to have his forever war, with no apparent path out. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2026, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6148 "2026-05-21T19:25:11Z")
Oh, sorry, it was from the Guardian. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2026, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6149 "2026-05-22T11:29:59Z")
(arrested development mene, not an actual quote) “I’ve advised a number of countries to beat an insurgency by bombing them” “Well did it work for those countries?” “No it never does. These countries somehow delude themselves into thinking it will… but it could work for us.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2026, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6150 "2026-05-25T21:03:55Z")
Australian activists who were arrested by Israeli forces on the aid flotilla report sexual assault (and other violations) from their captors. This Israeli government is really going all out on proving to the world that they’re totally okay with rape. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2026, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6151 "2026-06-20T19:41:22Z")
Israel killed a Lebanese turtle conservationist in her home: > **[Lebanese turtle conservationist Mona Khalil killed by Israeli strike](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwylx1vq18zo)** > > Mona Khalil, who had refused to leave the beach she had spent years protecting, died from her injuries after the Israeli strike. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2026, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6152 "2026-06-23T19:58:54Z")
An independent UN inquiry finds that Israel continues to commit genocide by deliberately targeting Palestinian children in Gaza and the West Bank. > Israeli forces continued to use high-payload munitions and weapons with widespread effects in densely populated residential areas, despite mounting child casualties, the commission said. > … > Conditions Israel imposed on Gaza, including widespread attacks, repeated displacement, and starvation caused by its blockade of aid, food and medicine, severely harmed children’s health and development, resulting in preventable deaths and trauma, the report said. > … > In the ‌West Bank, including East ​Jerusalem, the commission found a sharp increase in ​violence by Israeli settlers against Palestinian children, and documented evidence of torture, including sexual and gender-based violence, during mass arrests and detention. > **[Israel continues to commit genocide by targeting children in Gaza, UN inquiry...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jun/23/israel-deliberately-targeting-gaza-children-to-commit-genocide-un-inquiry-finds)** > > Independent report says by aiming at children Israel is undermining capacity of Palestinian people to exist ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2026, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6153 "2026-06-26T18:58:42Z")
Some of the UN Council’s conclusions reach a little farther than the evidence they cite, in my opinion. But I have to admit, the Hind Rajab incident appears to be a deliberate targeted attack on civilians and children, and it screams for a substantial official response. Other than those findings, I thought [Yuval Abraham’s 972+/Mekomit article](https://www.mekomit.co.il/ps/152707) presented the most plausible evidence, not so much of genocide, but of the Israeli military’s approach which causes the death of so many children. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2026, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6154 "2026-06-27T18:10:19Z")
Did Lebanon just recognize Israel? The beginning of the agreement they just signed reads: _Israel and Lebanon affirm the right of each state to exist in peace, and their mutual desire to live in security as neighboring **sovereign states.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2026, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6155 "2026-06-30T12:43:22Z")
So the Committee to “Protect” “Journalists” has, to the surprise of absolutely no one who had been paying any attention to the conflict, been caught lying yet again. Of 266 “journalists” identified by the ogranization as having been killed by Israel, it turned out that - surprise suprise (just kiddind, it’s not surprising at all) - [over 60% were actually part of Hamas or other terrorist groups](https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/about-60-of-the-gazans-classified-as-journalists-and-other-media-personnel-killed-in-the-gaza-strip-war-belonged-to-hamas-and-other-terrorist-organizations/). Shocking, I know it is not. While the CJP’s initial response was to deny deny deny, they’ve now had no choice but to reopen the investigation into some of the people they’ve previously lied about as being “journalists” “murdered” by Israel. They’ve already removed 20 names from their list and are investigating a large number of additional cases. Of course, not everyone is pleased about this. [Dr. Nika Soon-Shiong was ousted from the board of the CJP](https://x.com/i/status/2071658191478264018) because she doesnt think it is appropriate to exclude someone from the designation of journalist just because they also happen to be participating in terror attacks. Some real gems from her; she objects to pointing out the objective fact that Hamas wants to kill Jewish people: > [@](#): > > CPJ cannot credibly position itself as an objective judge of who is a legitimate journalist and what merits protection. It certainly cannot do so while stating that “Hamas wants to kill all Jews” as if it is fact. I can see why she is upset about the CJP checking whether or not the people they claim are journalists are actually tied to terrorist organizations. I mean, how are you supposed to run cover for Hamas if someone is checking your work? One could hope that without her the CJP could start doing some of the very important work they claim to do; but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Another gem from her: > [@](#): > > How could CPJ’s response place scrutiny on the journalists themselves-as though they were somehow responsible for their own deaths-even after they had been killed? Permanent reputational damage of doing so might undermine the impartiality and credibility on which CPJ’s work rests. Yes, apparenyly Impartiality and crediblity rely on assuming that people who were killed were completely uninvolved with terror, checking whether or the claims you make are true makes you _ **less** _ credible. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2026, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6156 "2026-06-30T12:54:53Z")
So this is what it’s come to? You’re calling it a big win and spiking the ball because maybe the number of journalists murdered is only about 40% of what some people claimed? You’re starting to sound like a Holocaust denialist. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2026, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/6157 "2026-06-30T12:56:54Z")
Another gem from her: > [@](#): > > Reopening the question of “who is a journalist” carries profound implications for the individuals CPJ protects and for the organizations with which they are affiliated. TRUE! It DOES carry profound implications for the individuals CJP protects _who are also terrorists_, as well as the terrorist organizations they are affiliated with such as Hamas or Hezbollah. It _also_ carries profound implications for the actual journalists the CJP _fails_ to protect when they sweep for terrorist orgs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=300) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=302)