# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/62 "2023-10-10T17:21:35Z")
> [@XOldiesJock](#): > > Beheaded babies in their cribs! Come on. Things are bad enough without the over the top rhetoric. And everything else that @Broomstick said. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/63 "2023-10-10T17:23:52Z")
Israel isn’t going to nuke Tehran unless Tehran literally sends nukes first. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/64 "2023-10-10T17:32:03Z")
Some IDF general just told a CNN reporter taken into a Kibbutz that it was a brutal massacre. And he did mention beheading. Killing of babies and children in front of their parents. Elderly murdered. I don’t think it speculation that atrocious things happened. And, and they filmed it. Just awful. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/65 "2023-10-10T17:37:19Z")
Yes, unfortunately “beheaded babies in their cribs” is within plausibility for what’s going on. I choose not to dwell on it because I need to function, and I don’t see where doing so helps anything. Unfortunately, some people need to confront the carnage up front in real life but the rest of us should moderate just how much we see/hear/read about these things for our own mental health. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/66 "2023-10-10T17:37:41Z")
But can we in America relate to that? The Hiroshima bomb literally burned babies in their cribs, too. Hamas militants brutally murdered unarmed civilians. I think Israel was right to call that an act of war, and declare war in return. But it’s not like atrocities are a brand new thing. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/67 "2023-10-10T17:47:27Z")
My feelings exactly. This is the information age. And we can possibly see it. I choose not to. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/68 "2023-10-10T17:55:06Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Tehran is far from Israel, and if a clear connection is made between Iran and these recent events, …it could make one pause. Iran’s air force is hopelessly outdated relative to Gulf (GCC) states, let alone Israel and the US. Iran essentially has nothing _other_ than missiles, and its missile tech is only barely starting to get close to modern precision guidance - probably at least a generation behind. So it’s extremely unlikely that Iran would _start_ anything overt, Israel and the US would obliterate them with conventional weapons. It does seem possible that there may be a retaliatory strike against Iran for the Hamas atrocities. But other than pure revenge, it’s hard to see what that would achieve, unless maybe we can figure out targets that are implicated in nuclear weapons development? It’s the same story as Gaza, the real challenge is changing hearts and minds. > **[The Iranian Missile Threat](https://www.csis.org/analysis/iranian-missile-threat)** > > Iran is responding to proven threats from its neighbors and the U.S., and its inability to properly modernize its military forces since 1980. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/69 "2023-10-11T01:23:01Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > . . . is within plausibility for what’s going on. Spreading stories of atrocities that, as far as we now know, didn’t occur has several disadvantages. One is that when the story is eventually debunked, it leads to denial that there ever were atrocities. A famous example is the claim that German soldiers intentionally and specifically massacred women and children in 1914. False, but it was then forgotten by many that they did intentionally and specifically massacre thousands of civilians, including men, women and children. The other problem is that piling false atrocity stories on top of true ones can incentivize commission of war crimes. It may seem somewhat unlikely when, as in this case, the truth is already so bad. But it is a plausible risk to be careful of. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/70 "2023-10-11T01:33:54Z")
Well that’s all for naught. We’re gonna hear about and see very bad things in the coming days. Beheadings have happened and reported by credible witnesses. Rape occured. Babies were burned alive. Ripped from their mother’s arms. Young people shot and/or taken hostage. For Gods sake they killed pet dogs. Any of those things convince me that it’s phenomenally bad. I don’t think anyone can say it will all be debunked and used later for a reason to dismiss the next round of aggression. Bad is bad. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/71 "2023-10-11T02:11:57Z")
One thing that I find appalling, particularly as more vile details come out, are the pro-Palestine demonstrations taking place in Canadian cities. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/72 "2023-10-11T02:27:24Z")
Especially in urban centres, Canada is _very_ diverse, making it almost inevitable that pockets of support or derision are pretty common. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/73 "2023-10-11T02:53:23Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > and its missile tech is only barely starting to get close to modern precision guidance - probably at least a generation behind. So it’s extremely unlikely that Iran would _start_ anything overt, Israel and the US would obliterate them with conventional weapons. Iran is run by bat-shit crazy Shiite Twelvers. Their idea of a good time starts with a doomsday scenario. Their missiles don’t have to be accurate to achieve that. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/74 "2023-10-11T04:57:25Z")
Hamas really planned this attack dumbly. For some reason, it escaped their attention that a live Israeli is worth a hundred dead ones. Take 1,500 Israeli live hostages and the IDF just _might_ approach the situation more gingerly. Kill 1,200 and take 150 hostage and the IDF is just going to roll into Gaza like there are no hostages. Anyhow, I’m hoping to see Israel wrap up this war by month’s end, with Hamas essentially ceasing to exist as an entity. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/75 "2023-10-11T05:03:32Z")
Taking people hostage and transporting them is much more difficult that killing them. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/76 "2023-10-11T16:42:14Z")
> [@Hamas attacks Israel, October 2023](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/321): > > Also notable that he’s urging Israel to minimise casualties, which implies US acceptance of a war on Hamas. Israel has always made some effort to do so; I mean, they could absolutely have killed a few hundred thousand people the last time they fought Hamas, but didn’t. It’s not a political option to do so and the nutballs screaming for Gaza to be wiped out just don’t get it. Biden (or any President) HAS to say this, even know it’s unnecessary, for the sake of PR. It’s breaking news, but for the consumption of the American electorate. It doesn’t have an effect on what Israel does. I’m sure other allied leaders have said similar things. Israel has shut off all power and water to Gaza. Is Egypt allowed to send power and water in as per relevant agreements with Israel? Or do they just not care to? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/77 "2023-10-11T16:57:49Z")
Is there infrastructure in place for Egypt to do that? I honestly have no idea. I suppose they could truck in fuel. Water? Electricity? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/78 "2023-10-11T18:02:18Z")
Obviously, _if they wanted to_, they could have already set it up; Egypt is a big country with infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/79 "2023-10-11T18:44:50Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > with Hamas essentially ceasing to exist as an entity. They will need to take out the Hamas leadership, which I understand is safely in a hotel in Qatar, enjoying the spectacle of civilians being killed on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/80 "2023-10-11T19:25:44Z")
I’m pretty sure Israel will go after the Hamas leadership much like they went after Eichmann back in the day. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/81 "2023-10-11T19:56:52Z")
I wonder if pressure could be brought to Qatar, who are hosting the leadership in comfy hotel rooms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=5)