# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 76
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1619 "2023-11-14T23:05:24Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The people of Gaza don’t need to listen to what “Israel intends to do on their propaganda channels.” > > _They are living it._ You don’t get to respond to a tiny fragment of my post and pretend you addressed my point. I didn’t dispute any of this: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > They’ve had their homes destroyed. Friends and family killed. Been forced to move with only what they can carry on their backs But your allegation that Israel will never allow them to return is outlandish, as is your claim that Israel deliberately targeted their friends and family in order to drive them away. Eta: not outlandish - Hamas propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1620 "2023-11-14T23:06:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > For those unclear on what @Banquet_Bear is insinuating here by using the term _Nakba_, he is accusing the IDF of intentionally bombing civilians and hospitals in order to drive Palestinian civilians out of Gaza at which point he believes Israel will annex it. In other words, ethnic cleansing at a scale just short of gas chambers. > > If that’s not what he meant, he should apologize and learn what words mean before repeating them. But I think that’s _exactly_ his insinuation. > > That’s Hamas propaganda, through and through. How do you reconcile this being untrue propaganda with the settlements in the West Bank? Other than using bulldozers instead of bombing, it seems pretty much the same to me. The settlers (with the support of the Israeli government) are driving out the Palestinians and annexing the land. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1621 "2023-11-14T23:12:52Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You don’t get to respond to a tiny fragment of my post and pretend you addressed my point. …I’ve been pitted for quoting too much of other peoples posts. So now I only quote what’s relevant. But I have addressed your point. > [@Babale](#): > > But your allegation that Israel will never allow them to return is outlandish > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > None of them think they will ever be able to return home. I stand by what I said, not what you imagined I said. > [@Babale](#): > > your claim that Israel deliberately targeted their friends and family in order to drive them away. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > They’ve had their homes destroyed. Friends and family killed. Been forced to move with only what they can carry on their backs Again: I’ll stand by what I said, and not your uncharitable interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1622 "2023-11-14T23:13:47Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > How do you reconcile this being untrue propaganda with the settlements in the West Bank? Other than using bulldozers instead of bombing, it seems pretty much the same to me. The settlers (with the support of the Israeli government) are driving out the Palestinians and annexing the land I’ve repeatedly said that the settlements are a cancer on Israeli society, that they are one of the biggest dangers to the nation, and that we must evict the settlers as part of a peace process (and ideally as a necesaary step leading to that process rather than as a concession, though this is less realistic politically speaking). The settlers represent a fringe political movement within Israel that _does_ want to remove the Palestinians from their land. They are terrible people who pose an enormous threat to our national security, and some are straight up terrorists. One of Netanyahu’s many crimes has been pandering to this fringe group to maintain power, which as I’ve said contributed to the current crisis by weakening Israel’s security. And for this may he _finally_ pay the ultimate political price and be driven out of office (and into jail) as soon as possible. The settlers do not control the IDF or its targeting doctrine. Many of the people who _do_ were, until recently, being accused by the settlers’ representatives of being traitorous bleeding heart lefties who have forgotten what it means to be Jewish and are destroying Israel (their words, not mine). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1623 "2023-11-14T23:16:35Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > > None of them think they will ever be able to return home. > > I stand by what I said, not what you imagined I said. Then I stand by what I said. They _believe_ this because of Hamas propaganda and because of fringe far right Israelis who irresponsibly echo those sentiments to stir up their anti-Arab base. I want to know why _you_ present it as fact: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The Palestinians are calling this the second Nakba. And if you are confused by the IDF tactics here, I would suggest you look at it from a Palestinian lens. Because for me: that would explain the IDF’s actions quite clearly. You are assuming the IDF are acting in good faith here. And I think that’s the problem here. I see no reason at all why we should do that. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1624 "2023-11-14T23:26:41Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’ve repeatedly said that the settlements are a cancer on Israeli society, that they are one of the biggest dangers to the nation, and that we must evict the settlers as part of a peace process (and ideally as a necesaary step leading to that process rather than as a concession, though this is less realistic politically speaking). I know you feel this way about the settlers. And I agree that they aren’t representative of the larger Israeli population. But they do exist, and they are being supported by the government. Their terrorism against Palestinians (and Christians) in the West Bank has ramped up in the last month, and there have been no repercussions. If the Israeli government wanted to stop the settlements, they could. Instead, settlements have continued to expand for years now. So it’s not just Hamas propaganda that Israelis want to annex their land. It is happening now. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1625 "2023-11-14T23:40:15Z")
FWIW: > The White House’s national security council spokesperson, John Kirby, said the U.S. has unspecified intelligence that Hamas and another Palestinian militants use Shifa and other hospitals and tunnels underneath them to support military operations and hold hostages. > > The intelligence is based on multiple sources, and the U.S. independently collected the information, a U.S. official said on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters. > > Kirby said the U.S. doesn’t support airstrikes on hospitals and does not want to see “a firefight in a hospital where innocent people” are trying to get care. - [SOURCE](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-11-14-2023-42d3e99d81672d166e720e7520796c41) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1626 "2023-11-15T00:04:09Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > They _believe_ this because of Hamas propaganda …they believe it because _this is what they see is happening to them_. They can’t go to work. They can’t earn a living. They are under siege. No power, no water, no food, no medicine, no hospital care. Forced to relocate. What exactly do you think the endgame is here? Every time I’ve mentioned ending the siege to you here, you’ve said that they can’t, because that would mean rockets could get smuggled in. So how does the siege end? When do we start to provide the basics of humanity again? You obviously don’t think now is the right time. When is the right time? But we aren’t having that discussion here. For the last day it seems people have been talking casually about “bombing them into submission.” So what’s the endgame here? How do we go from “bombing them into submission” to letting the Gazans return home? There is a logical disconnect here. There isn’t an immediate future that _doesn’t_ involve a prolonged occupation of Gaza. And as horrible as life was under occupation before October the 7th, it will be infinitely more miserable now. So whats the endgame here? For Palestinians to continue living in Gaza would either mean a more oppressive regime than the one they already live under, continued ongoing resistance, or they _leave_. There is no other _option_. I think, just like the 1948 displacement, hundreds of thousands of people will choose to leave. I think _that’s_ how it ends. This isn’t propaganda. It doesn’t matter if its a deliberate strategy by the IDF or not. The end result is going to be the same. > [@Babale](#): > > because of fringe far right Israelis When what is happening on the ground matches what the “fringe far right” are saying, then who do you want the Palestinians to believe? If you had a platform right now to the Palestinian people, what would you say to reassure them that they would be allowed to go home? What would you tell them the siege would be over? When could they safely return to the hospitals? When will they be able to return so they can dig through the rubble to pull out their family? > [@Babale](#): > > I want to know why _you_ present it as fact: Palestinians are calling this the second Nakba is a fact. > [@Reuters](#): > > “What do things look like behind us? Destruction and death. We left in fear,” said a woman who gave her name as Um Hassan. She had just crossed into southern Gaza from the north of the tiny, crowded territory. > > “We are the poor Palestinian people whose houses were destroyed,” she said, calling it a second Nakba. > **[Palestinians leaving besieged Gaza City fear new Nakba](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinians-leaving-besieged-gaza-city-fear-new-nakba-2023-11-09/)** > > Palestinians trudging past Israeli tanks and decomposing corpses along a frontline passage out of encircled Gaza City on Thursday said they feared a new "Nakba", the "catastrophe" of their mass dispossession after Israel was founded in 1948. I don’t see any reason why we should assume the IDF are acting in good faith. The siege breaks international law. The siege and attacks on the hospitals breach international law. I’ll judge them on their actions. And they’ve shown a total disregard to the Geneva Conventions and the rules of war. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1627 "2023-11-15T00:24:51Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It wasn’t a “peace” platitude, it’s a statement about revenge. At some point you have to leave off with taking revenge or everything will be destroyed. It’s a peace platitude by starry-eyed pacifists who see an equivalency in all violence and therefore think of the victim hitting back at the initial aggressor as “revenge.” It’s not (at least, not in most cases, and certainly not in the case of Israel vs Hamas) revenge. It’s defense and deterrence. If the aggressor is not rendered incapable of continued acts of aggression, said aggressor will continue to victimize the original victim (if said victim had survived) and others. Inaction on the part of the original victim (or those who reasonably expect to become the next victims) does not serve the purpose of decreasing violence, it means that there will be more violence, and they will suffer its effects. Anyone who can’t grasp this concept is a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1628 "2023-11-15T01:25:09Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …they believe it because _this is what they see is happening to them_. They can’t go to work. They can’t earn a living. They are under siege. No power, no water, no food, no medicine, no hospital care. Forced to relocate. None of that relates to the concept of Nakba or to your blood libel claim that the IDF is hitting civilian targets with no Hamas presence just to kill civilians and drive Palestinians out of Gaza. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > What exactly do you think the endgame is here? Every time I’ve mentioned ending the siege to you here, you’ve said that they can’t, because that would mean rockets could get smuggled in. > > So how does the siege end? When do we start to provide the basics of humanity again? You obviously don’t think now is the right time. When is the right time? To be clear, aid _is_ coming in; the pace and quantity should continue to increase as the IDF gains control over the Gaza strip. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > But we aren’t having that discussion here. For the last day it seems people have been talking casually about “bombing them into submission.” **I** certainly haven’t, and perhaps I am wrong but afaik the posters who _have_ aren’t Israeli. It’s part of the “let’s you and him fight” attitude towards the conflict I’ve called out on the American right. It certainly isn’t the attitude of the IDF. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > There is a logical disconnect here. There isn’t an immediate future that _doesn’t_ involve a prolonged occupation of Gaza. And as horrible as life was under occupation before October the 7th, it will be infinitely more miserable now. Occupation of Gaza by Israel for some length of time will be necessary, but the goal should definitely not be a prolonged occupation of Gaza by Israel, which would be disastrous. The best case scenario for an interim government would be if it was run by a coalition of other Arab states, as I think this would help with legitimacy in the eyes of the Palestinian people, which is crucial here; but I also doubt that any Arab states would want to entangle themselves with this situation. But an Israeli occupation or an Israeli backed interim government is probably not practical because anything too closely associated with Israel will undoubtedly be rejected. The longer term goal is an independent Palestinian state. That has to be the end goal. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > For Palestinians to continue living in Gaza would either mean a more oppressive regime than the one they already live under There is absolutely no reason for an Israeli occupation or an interim government to be _more oppressive than Hamas_. Israel never withdrew from the West Bank, but for all their flaws the PA is certainly not more oppressive than Hamas. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > continued ongoing resistance That path means death, as surely as the path of doubling down on the settlements does for Israel. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > or they _leave_. There is no other _option_ Or they accept the existence of Israel and build a government that will pursue a two state solution instead. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > If you had a platform right now to the Palestinian people, what would you say to reassure them that they would be allowed to go home? What would you tell them the siege would be over? When could they safely return to the hospitals? When will they be able to return so they can dig through the rubble to pull out their family? I would tell them that our war is with Hamas and not with them, and urge them to get to safety, away from any buildings that Hamas is making use of; I would urge them to start thinking about the sort of Palestine they want to build when Hamas is gone. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Palestinians are calling this the second Nakba is a fact I know. I am asking why _you_ are making the claim that Palestinians will not be allowed to return, or that the IDF is purposefuly targeting civilians to drive them away. Not why Palestinians who are subjected to Hamas propaganda think so; why _you_ are making that claim _here_. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I don’t see any reason why we should assume the IDF are acting in good faith. The siege breaks international law. The siege and attacks on the hospitals breach international law. I’ll judge them on their actions. And they’ve shown a total disregard to the Geneva Conventions and the rules of war. Does “guilty until proven innocent” apply to all countries or just Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1629 "2023-11-15T01:34:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > or to your blood libel claim …please withdraw this accusation. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1630 "2023-11-15T01:47:47Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > or to your blood libel claim > > …please withdraw this accusation …I will, as soon as you withdraw your blood libelous claims that the IDF is purposefully murdering civilians in an effort to ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip. Until you do so, I will continue to describe blood libel as blood libel. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1631 "2023-11-15T02:01:38Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > …I will, as soon as you withdraw your blood libelous claims that the IDF is purposefully murdering civilians in an effort to ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip. …I’m not going to withdraw something that _I didn’t say._ ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1632 "2023-11-15T02:10:52Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I’m not going to withdraw something that _I didn’t say_ You said: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The Palestinians are calling this the second Nakba. And if you are confused by the IDF tactics here, I would suggest you look at it from a Palestinian lens. Because for me: that would explain the IDF’s actions quite clearly. You are assuming the IDF are acting in good faith here. And I think that’s the problem here. I see no reason at all why we should do that. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I don’t think the “IDF sincerely believes” there is a headquarters under the hospital. They’ve got it surrounded. They’ve got drones. They are controlling everything getting in and out. They’ve had decades to gather evidence. They’ve had over a month to present that evidence to the world. Anything they present now will simply be post hoc rationalization. You literally said that you believe Israel knows that there is no Hamas beneath these hospitals but that the IDF is bombing them anyways. That’s blood libel. And then when I called you out on it you said that this is just what Palestinians believe. So I ask you again. Do YOU claim that Israel is bombing Palestinian homes and hospitals that have no Hamas presence in order to drive away the Palestinians, or do you admit that this is _not_ happening even though some on the Palestinian side do believe it to be the case? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1633 "2023-11-15T02:29:22Z")
…just for the removal of all doubt: From the International Red Cross: > [@](#): > > _Critical infrastructure that people depend on to live – including electricity and water networks – must not be targeted. Irrespective of any military siege, the authorities must ensure that civilians have access to basic necessities, including safe water, food and medical care._ > **[Israel and the occupied territories: Targeting civilians leads to further...](https://www.icrc.org/en/document/israel-and-occupied-territories-targeting-civilians-leads-further-spirals-violence-and-hatred)** > > The recent violence in Israel and Gaza is at a level we have not seen in many years and has the potential to escalate dramatically, causing even more pain and anguish on all sides. > [@](#): > > The instructions issued by the Israeli authorities for the population of Gaza City to immediately leave their homes, coupled with the complete siege explicitly denying them food, water, and electricity, are not compatible with international humanitarian law. > > When military powers order people to leave their homes, all possible measures must be taken to ensure the population has access to basic necessities like food and water and that members of the same family are not separated. > **[Israel and the occupied territories: Evacuation order of Gaza triggers...](https://www.icrc.org/en/document/israel-and-occupied-territories-evacuation-order-of-gaza-triggers-catastrophic-humanitarian-consequences)** > > Nothing can justify the horrific attacks Israel suffered last weekend. Our hearts go out to people who lost family members or are worried sick about loved ones taken hostage. We reiterate our call for their immediate release and stand ready to... The IDF have blatantly disregarded international humanitarian law. The siege _continues to this day_. And that’s just the _siege_. And as the recognized occupying power, Israel has additional obligations under the conventions. For a hospital to lose its protected status the following needs to > [@](#): > > Therefore, specific protection to which hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used by a party to the conflict to commit, outside their humanitarian functions, an “act harmful to the enemy”. **In case of doubt** as to whether medical units of establishments are used to commit an “act harmful to the enemy”, they should be presumed not to be so used. > **[The protection of hospitals during armed conflicts: What the law says](https://www.icrc.org/en/document/protection-hospitals-during-armed-conflicts-what-law-says)** > > What kind of specific protection do the wounded and sick enjoy in times of armed conflict?In times of armed conflict, the wounded and sick include anyone, whether military or civilian, who needs medical attention and is not, or no longer, taking part... The protections are explicit here. And given the opportunity to defend the actions taken against the hospitals in Gaza we’ve been given essentially a _slide-show_. I have zero qualms calling what we’ve seen here war crimes. We don’t need to test the siege in international law to prove it. You effectively cut off power, fuel, water, food, to practically the entire population, you are engaging in collective punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1634 "2023-11-15T02:39:12Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > For a hospital to lose its protected status… I posted above that US intelligence feels that Hamas is hiding in/below the hospitals (see [post #1625](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1625)). It should not be surprising that Hamas is hiding in the very things the Red Cross says should not be attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1635 "2023-11-15T02:44:22Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I posted above that US intelligence feels that Hamas is hiding in/below the hospitals …US Intelligence ALSO thought Iraq had WMD’s. And only yesterday a State Department spox refused to say anything about this, and referred _reporters to the reporting_. > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It should not be surprising “It should not be surprising” isn’t a sufficient standard to remove the protections under the laws of war. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1636 "2023-11-15T02:45:10Z")
EU too: > **[EU condemns Hamas for using 'hospitals as human shields', urges Israeli...](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/eu-condemns-hamas-using-hospitals-human-shields-urges-israeli-restraint-2023-11-12/)** > > The European Union on Sunday condemned Hamas for using "hospitals and civilians as human shields" in Gaza, while also urging Israel to show "maximum restraint" to protect civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1637 "2023-11-15T02:46:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > EU too: > > [EU condemns Hamas for using 'hospitals as human shields', urges Israeli restraint | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/eu-condemns-hamas-using-hospitals-human-shields-urges-israeli-restraint-2023-11-12/) …and the lack of evidence in that statement is _as loud and as clear as it is in every other statement_. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1638 "2023-11-15T02:46:48Z")
Only Hamas can be trusted, haven’t you figured out? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=75) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=77)