# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 89
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1879 "2023-11-25T05:57:16Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And as Babale points out, a large majority of the citizens of Gaza never voted for Hamas. (A majority weren’t alive or weren’t old enough to vote in the last election. And it’s not as if Hamas got 100% support among whose who voted.) All that means is that they’ve been under the brainwashed rule of a party voted into power by people who hate Israel. Unless you are suggesting there has been a change of heart this is the destiny of Hamas’s will. The people who attacked Israel would be those too young to have voted in the last election. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1880 "2023-11-25T07:14:53Z")
Forcibly moving millions who’ve been in Gaza for generations, also known as ethnic cleansing, is not part of a viable path towards peace. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1881 "2023-11-25T07:16:26Z")
Without peace there will be no security for Israel. As hard as it will be, it’s still necessary. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1882 "2023-11-25T08:10:39Z")
Under what terms? The two sides have, at the moment, irreconcilable differences. One side is going to have to drastically change their worldview. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1883 "2023-11-25T09:47:57Z")
I’ve been wondering about the Palestinian side of the hostage exchange. Funny how we hear absolutely nothing about it, right? Well, it turns out that the Israeli government has the position that anyone publicly celebrating the release of a Palestinian prisoner would be charged as a terrorist. How dare a mother express joy at seeing her daughter again, right? There is a very evil double-standard at work. [https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/11/24/palestinian-release-celebrations-forbidden-nima-max-vpx.cnn](https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/11/24/palestinian-release-celebrations-forbidden-nima-max-vpx.cnn) Aside from what these people may or may not have done, criminalizing normal human emotions is just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1884 "2023-11-25T10:46:56Z")
There’s a lot more than 2 sides. There are Israelis and Palestinians who want peace, and there are many who don’t. The ones who want peace should be empowered and brought to the forefront. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1885 "2023-11-25T13:38:49Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > the Israeli government has the position that anyone publicly celebrating the release of a Palestinian prisoner would be charged as a terrorist. How dare a mother express joy at seeing her daughter again, right? What is the legal underpinning of that doctrine? That you are a terrorist sympathizer if you love a person detained for suspected stabbing? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1886 "2023-11-25T14:30:56Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’ve been wondering about the Palestinian side of the hostage exchange. Funny how we hear absolutely nothing about it, right? Well, it turns out that the Israeli government has the position that anyone publicly celebrating the release of a Palestinian prisoner would be charged as a terrorist. How dare a mother express joy at seeing her daughter again, right? > > There is a very evil double-standard at work. > > [https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/11/24/palestinian-release-celebrations-forbidden-nima-max-vpx.cnn](https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/11/24/palestinian-release-celebrations-forbidden-nima-max-vpx.cnn) Is there a cite for this claim, other than what the lady says in the video? The text in the article doesn’t back up what she says and I haven’t seen any other claims that this is happening. In fact this AP article about other prisoners being released describes them being met by celebration: > **[Palestinian families rejoice over release of minors and women in wartime...](https://apnews.com/article/palestinians-israel-prisoner-exchange-hostage-92545883b1fef86fb9b34549b7deca58)** > > More than three dozen Palestinian prisoners have returned home to a hero’s welcome in the occupied West Bank following their release from Israeli prisons as part of a cease-fire deal between Israel and Hamas. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > What is the legal underpinning of that doctrine? That you are a terrorist sympathizer if you love a person detained for suspected stabbing?. I am curious wxactly what this doctrine is supposed to be, who allegedly enforces this, and what criteria they use. To me this claim sounds extremely doubtful. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1887 "2023-11-25T16:31:36Z")
The _Washington Post_ has a lengthy article up about rape during the October 7th invasion. Multiple sources cited. Probably paywalled. I’m not going to quote any of it, but if you have access, it’s a distressing read. i did read some of the comments thereon, and it all sounded a lot like this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1888 "2023-11-25T17:15:46Z")
I assume you mean this article? > **[Israel investigates an elusive, horrific enemy: Rape as a weapon of war](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/25/israel-hamas-rape-sexual-violence/)** > > The first indications of sexual violence came as early as Oct. 7, the day Hamas and other fighters streamed into Israel and live-streamed their deadly rampage. I was able to read it but not the comments. What did you see that reminded you of this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1889 "2023-11-25T17:31:36Z")
Hamas is delaying today’s hostage release. I am worried that they got what they wanted out of the break in the fighting and will now abandon the deal. I hope this is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1890 "2023-11-25T17:50:17Z")
Yes, that article. The comments ranged from evil Israel does it too, to Hamas evil what can you expect, to settlers evil, to 1948, to “to the sea,” to… Well, just about every argument for/against either side we’ve seen here. ETA: I’m sure it’s being moderated, but there’s harsher stuff than is allowed here that’s getting published. Also a lot of discussion about rape as a tool/consequence of war in general. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1891 "2023-11-25T17:56:11Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > The _Washington Post_ has a lengthy article up about rape during the October 7th invasion. Multiple sources cited. Probably paywalled. I skimmed rapidly over portions of that article [ETA: and did not look at all at the comments]; not all of it’s graphic, but some of it is highly unpleasant reading. But I currently have a massively discounted subscription, which comes with 10 gift links a month. So here’s one of them: [https://wapo.st/49Oq6hv](https://wapo.st/49Oq6hv) ETA again: hey, this thread let me post! Usually it doesn’t let me do anything other than read – intermittent software glitch, affecting only a few threads, but usually affecting this one. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1892 "2023-11-25T18:00:50Z")
And with that link I can see that the comment section is indeed a cesspool. No great surprise. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1893 "2023-11-25T18:03:51Z")
No, not a surprise at all. I made it a few dozen posts down and bailed out. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1894 "2023-11-25T18:49:45Z")
I wonder if any living rapists that were photographed or identified are on an Israeli hit list. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1895 "2023-11-25T20:54:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Forcibly moving millions who’ve been in Gaza for generations, also known as ethnic cleansing, is not part of a viable path towards peace. Well Gaza’s attacks on Israel don’t appear to be the path to peace. NOT attacking Israel might work better. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1896 "2023-11-25T20:56:55Z")
EDIT: Gaza didn’t attack Israel, Hamas did. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1897 "2023-11-25T21:37:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well Gaza’s attacks on Israel don’t appear to be the path to peace. Hamas’ actions don’t justify what you suggest, and Israel doesn’t want or need to become to the kind of country that does those things. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1898 "2023-11-25T22:10:07Z")
Sounds like the hostages are coming home today after all. More good news! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=88) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=90)