# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 92
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1939 "2023-11-27T13:55:01Z")
Sure, more accurate to say that it is not actually a hamas-run website despite the (possibly unintended) confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1940 "2023-11-27T14:16:41Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Sure, more accurate to say that it is not actually a hamas-run website despite the (possibly unintended) confusion FWIW I didn’t read Dorjan’s original post as saying this website was run by Hamas; he just said it is a reminder of who Israel is at war with, and that’s exactly what it is. And many of the horrific photos there are taken from Hamas’ Telegram accounts, so it’s not like they aren’t genuinely sourced from Hamas. Eta: but if there _was_ any confusion about that, clarifying it in thread as we have now done is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1941 "2023-11-27T16:43:42Z")
Sounds like there are some delays again with the hostages, might have to do with Hamas not actually being in possession of all the hostages that they’re meant to release - Islamic Jihad apparently has at least 40, as do smaller groups and even random individuals. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1942 "2023-11-27T17:42:51Z")
Did the other groups participate in the attacks, or did hamas give hostages to them? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1943 "2023-11-27T18:05:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Did the other groups participate in the attacks Yes, other groups participated in the attacks. Some coordinated with Hamas, some smaller groups (and even random individuals) joined in on the fly when they saw what was happening. (I understand that the group of men who decapitated a foreign worker with a shovel on video may not have been part of a militant group, for example - they were apparently just random guys who saw what was happening on Oct 7 and decided it would be fun to join in). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1944 "2023-11-27T18:10:21Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > they were apparently just random guys who saw what was happening on Oct 7 and decided it would be fun to join in That is disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1945 "2023-11-27T21:49:32Z")
Fourth day of hostage exchange went off successfully. Looks like the ceasefire may be extended by two days as well. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1946 "2023-11-28T00:46:40Z")
The Palestinians need to put together some kind of interim government that separates them from Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1947 "2023-11-28T02:43:47Z")
Question for any of the Israelis in this thread: would you consider it offensive/defeatist for someone who was generally pro-Israel to describe Israel as being in a “no-win situation”? I used that phrase in an email to a dear friend who is passionately pro-Israel, and also very emotionally invested in the situation (her son is there now), and she has not responded at all, which is very unlike her, and now I’m wondering if I offended her; either by implying either that Israel is doomed or that I view Israel as morally deserving of being in a difficult state. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1948 "2023-11-28T03:12:31Z")
Apparently Hamas understood the value of the hostages and kept them fed and proteced during the war. Food is scarce everywhere in Gaza and that limited the hostage’s supplies. [https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/27/middleeast/israel-hamas-hostages-testimony-conditions-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/27/middleeast/israel-hamas-hostages-testimony-conditions-intl/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1949 "2023-11-28T03:40:46Z")
Sounds like a great idea, but it would definitely put you on an assassination list. Hamas has Gaza locked tight. If Israel is successful in breaking Hamas (I remain doubtful) this could create a short lived power vacuum, but I don’t see a force like the PA in a position to capitalize from it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1950 "2023-11-28T09:44:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Palestinians need to put together some kind of interim government that separates them from Hamas. That is hard to do when you’re thirsty/dehydrated to the point you’ll drink brine, you’re on a starvation diet when you can find food at all, and you’re sleeping in the middle of ruins with no heat and inadequate clothing during the winter. Right now it’s a struggle for the most marginal survival. I don’t think the average person really understands just how horrific the situation is for many average, non-Hamas Palestinians. That’s partly due to simple lack of information from inside Gaza (a lot of journalists and bloggers have been killed, along with communication blackouts), but it’s also because I don’t think the average person really wants to face the horror of what’s going on. Rather like how a lot of people don’t really know the full horror of what happened on October 7. Some of it is the media restraining their reporting for the masses, but if you really want to know the information is out there if you look for it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1951 "2023-11-28T09:49:12Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Apparently Hamas understood the value of the hostages and kept them fed and proteced during the war. Food is scarce everywhere in Gaza and that limited the hostage’s supplies. > > [https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/27/middleeast/israel-hamas-hostages-testimony-conditions-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/27/middleeast/israel-hamas-hostages-testimony-conditions-intl/index.html) If that amount of food was what valuable and protected hostages had to eat then the people Hamas does not value are eating even less. If people have lost 10-15 pounds during that span of time they’re slowly starving to death. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1952 "2023-11-28T12:00:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well, it turns out that the Israeli government has the position that anyone publicly celebrating the release of a Palestinian prisoner would be charged as a terrorist. How dare a mother express joy at seeing her daughter again, right? > [@Babale](#): > > Is there a cite for this claim, other than what the lady says in the video? The text in the article doesn’t back up what she says and I haven’t seen any other claims that this is happening. I just saw this today, and you’ll never guess who’s behind the edict: > **[Analysis | How Israel keeps hundreds of Palestinians in detention without charge](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/27/israel-palestine-detention-adminstrative-prisoners-jail/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzAxMDYxMjAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzAyNDQzNTk5LCJpYXQiOjE3MDEwNjEyMDAsImp0aSI6Ijc4OGFhMWUxLTA1ODMtNGU3Ni05NWQ2LTFiOWRkMmM1NGUzOCIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS93b3JsZC8yMDIzLzExLzI3L2lzcmFlbC1wYWxlc3RpbmUtZGV0ZW50aW9uLWFkbWluc3RyYXRpdmUtcHJpc29uZXJzLWphaWwvIn0.y5xeygTPpZd8oQskuZGKTwcs6rZV-3PuefCI_BptGk4&itid=gfta)** > > Under international law, the practice of administrative detention is supposed to be used only in exceptional circumstances. It has become more the norm in the West Bank. > [@](#): > > While there were scenes of jubilation in Ramallah in the West Bank as a group of released prisoners met their families over the weekend, Itamar Ben Gvir, Israel’s far-right national security minister, issued directives cracking down on such celebrations in East Jerusalem, where the Israeli police can directly operate. “My instructions are clear: there are to be no expressions of joy,” he [said](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ahead-of-slated-palestinian-prisoner-release-ben-gvir-tells-police-to-shut-down-celebrations/). “Expressions of joy are equivalent to backing terrorism, victory celebrations give backing to those human scum, for those Nazis.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1953 "2023-11-28T12:10:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I just saw this today, and you’ll never guess who’s behind the edict: Ben Gvir’s a vile piece of pond scum, but the policy is unfortunately a sound one: things in the West Bank are as tense as they’ve ever been, and these sort of prisoner release celebrations attract hundreds or even thousands of well-wishers. The last thing anyone (other than Hamas) wants is for a bunch of celebrants to take the party to the next stage by attacking a police patrol or checkpoint. It’s not fair, but it’ll keep people on both sides from getting killed. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1954 "2023-11-28T12:33:05Z")
Who are those dudes, and sometimes women, that have been seen and photographed walking e.g. along Tel-Aviv beaches wearing casual clothing like shorts and a T-shirt but also armed with an M4, M203, or other military-looking weapons? They are _not_ wearing any kind of uniform: [![](https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/People-armed-in-Tel-Aviv-1701090337.jpg) ](https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/People-armed-in-Tel-Aviv-1701090337.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1955 "2023-11-28T12:53:01Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > photographed walking e.g. along Tel-Aviv beaches wearing casual clothing like shorts and a T-shirt but also a Soldiers on leave. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1956 "2023-11-28T13:14:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Ben Gvir’s a vile piece of pond scum, but the policy is unfortunately a sound one: things in the West Bank are as tense as they’ve ever been A different order–one limiting gatherings to no more than twenty people, say–would make sense to me. The way Gvir said it–“There are to be no expressions of joy…expressions of joy are equivalent to backing terrorism”–does not seem reasonable. Especially since, as the article points out, some of the people released are fourteen years old, and others are held without charges. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1957 "2023-11-28T13:20:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > A different order–one limiting gatherings to no more than twenty people, say–would make sense to me. The way Gvir said it–“There are to be no expressions of joy…expressions of joy are equivalent to backing terrorism”–does not seem reasonable. That’s because he’s a dick who has no idea what he’s doing, who probably took a recommendation from a professional and rephrased it in the form of an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/1958 "2023-11-28T13:32:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > > [@DPRK](#): > > > > photographed walking e.g. along Tel-Aviv beaches wearing casual clothing like shorts and a T-shirt but also a > > Soldiers on leave. And for those not familiar with Israeli policy, that’s not a new thing. When we vacationed in Israel a few months ago, we took the train from the airport (near Tel Aviv) to Jerusalem at about the time soldiers were returning from a weekend break, and the train station was full of kids in civilian clothes with big guns. The soldiers are responsible for their guns even when they are on leave. I sat on the crowded train cuddled up next to one of those guns, which was pretty weird to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=91) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317.md?page=93)