# Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317>\
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\
**Tags:** israel-hamas-war\
**Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317 "2023-10-09T15:10:01Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 804

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**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/804 "2023-11-02T02:24:53Z")

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> [@Babale](#):
>
> I fully agree that claims of Israeli war crimes should be thoroughly investigated, and I hope that for once Israel is held to the same standard as every other nation in its situation.

I’m glad we can agree on something!

> [@Babale](#):
>
> > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
> >
> > A group of UN special rapporteurs asserted Israel’s indiscriminate airstrikes are “absolutely prohibited under international law and amounts to a war crime.”
> 
> Cite that Israeli airstrikes are _indiscriminate_?

Cites for the groups alleging that Israeli airstrikes have been indiscriminate are in the Wikipedia article and include UN special rapporteurs, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), The Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem, the United Nation Human Rights Office, and Amnesty International. I would imagine others have also made the accusation.

Investigations by appropriate authorities would need to be undertaken to substantiate or refute the allegations.

> [@Babale](#):
>
> > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
> >
> > On 24 October, UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres called for an immediate ceasefire, after stating Israel had committed “clear violations” of international humanitarian law. On 1 November, following two airstrikes on the Jabalia refugee camp, the United Nation Human Rights Office stated, “We have serious concerns that these are disproportionate attacks that could amount to war crimes.”
> 
> Ahh, yes. The _indiscriminate_ air strike that _just happened_ to kill a high ranking Hamas leader who planned the Oct 7 attacks.

Over a hundred people were reported killed and a market and residential complex destroyed. This raises the question of proportionality in that the incidental civilian loss or damages must be proportionate with the military advantages. If this proportionality requirement is not followed, humanitarian law considers the attack to be indiscriminate. I’m not a war crimes lawyer, so I’m not able to assess the particulars of this case. The United Nation Human Rights Office stated, “We have serious concerns that these are disproportionate attacks that could amount to war crimes.”

> [@Babale](#):
>
> > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
> >
> > Several actions taken by the Israeli army, including its blockade on electricity, food, fuel and water, were characterized as collective punishment, a war crime prohibited by treaty in both international and non-international armed conflicts, more specifically Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions and Additional Protocol II.
> 
> By whom? And did the people making this statement have a plan for how aid can enter Gaza without arming Hamas?

Israel’s president Isaac Herzog accused the residents of Gaza of collective responsibility for the war. The Wikipedia article cites various groups and individuals describing the situation as collective punishment, including Doctors Without Borders, Oxfam, the EU’s chief diplomat Josep Borrell, the UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, and Human Rights Watch.

I’m not a lawyer, but it seems incredibly war-crimey to me to deprive over 2 million innocent civilians of food, water, supplies and so on in order to try and deprive a targeted 40,000 armed individuals of the same.

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