Certainly it is worth pointing out such horrors.
But, also, it is not something to only hold against the Israeli army. They are not unique when it comes to a military being awful. Hamas is awful too. The US army does awful things. All militaries do. It sucks but it is not new. Kinda goes with the territory. That certainly does not make it ok at all.
I’m not going to hold it against only the IDF. But I certainly am going to hold it against them.
Isn’t there a range of awfulness though? It’s not binary “you either did something awful or you didn’t”.
For example what Hamas did on Oct 7 with beheading babies is on the extreme side of awfulness. Doesn’t mean all armies have done things at that extreme end.
I do not see how it is worthwhile to try to tally who did more worse things.
“You beheaded babies!”
“Yeah, but you captured women and raped them!”
I wouldn’t know where to start with such a butcher’s bill and I don’t want to. Awful is awful.
If that’s the case, why is Hamas bad and “must be stopped” if they’re neither worse nor better than Israel? I can see why Israel wants to protect its citizens, but why should the rest of the world give a crap if they’re both equally vile?
No, because, as established above, Hamas is evil and its cause is unjust.
Good question. I think the current landscape of media is to evoke outrage.
Pick a side and shake your fist at the other.
What is happening in Israel/Gaza is tragic. I can see both sides. Seems most like picking one side.
How many divisions does justice have?
I thought you were above moral judgements and laws of war
None. That’s why Israel needs to fight a war in order to achieve it.
So you’re not disagreeing that Hamas is evil, then?
This will only be a minor hijack, but the Emir Kustarica film “Underground” features tunnels with trucks driving in tunnels to defend WW11 Belgrade - it’s magical reality comedy, and really good.
Hey, now you are excluding us Zimbabweans. It wasn’t just the South African apartheid regime being complete assholes, we had an official civil war about it.
We just never made a word about it like the South Africans did.
Both an undeclared war with the Brits, who treated the unilateral decalaration of independence as laughable, and a very real civil war against the majority Blacks, which thankfully us whites lost.
South Africa, thank god, never entered full on civil war, it would have been beyond appalling. Zimbabwe/Rhodesia was bad enough.
In support of your point, opression of people based on their race, religion, skin colour or any fucking thing is wrong.
The Palestinians and the Israelis have an equal right to exist, but not to be completely dickheaded about it, and that is largely on Hamas and the IDF.
…this post will contain a few links to Twitter, apologies in advance, some of this stuff just can’t be found anywhere else at the moment though.
I just read this Human Rights Watch report, and it included a note that I didn’t believe so I had to go to the primary cite to confirm.
Remember when the south was where everyone was told to go to because it was “safe?” Well half of Gaza is now in Rafah. Driven down to the border. Exactly as Gazans said would happen at the start of the war. And is it safe in Rafah?
AJ was filming live as an IDF struck a target next to the hospital. Most of the time we see the bombs from a distance, on shaky cellphone cameras. But this was filmed in broadcast quality, on a tripod, and we can see the randomness and brutality of this bombing campaign in full display here.
Nowhere is safe.
In this Twitter post, Abdalhadi Alijla, author of “Rebel Governance in the MENA”, talks about the video footage of his neighbourhood being demolished in a controlled demolition:
Listen to the cheers.
To give you an idea of the scale of destruction this war has caused, here is some cinematic footage from IDF soldiers on the ground.
Another hospital update: Al-Ahli Arab Hospital. Another one effectively shut-down.
Gaza is being flattened. People have been driven south. To the border. Half of the population of Gaza are in a single city. Hospitals shut down one-by-one. And the siege continues.
All Hamas needs to do is agree to a cease fire and release hostages.
…all Israel has to do is comply with the Geneva conventions and the laws of war and to stop waging a collective war of punishment on the Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank. Stop indiscriminate bombing. Stop closing down hospitals. Stop destroying apartment blocks. Stop starving millions of people. Stop abducting people from houses on the West Bank. Stop administrative detention.
They’re not indiscriminately bombing. They’ve very specific on their bombing They even warn ahead of time. They’re also not shutting down hospitals. Hospitals are shutting down because Hamas won’t agree to ceasefires and allow supplies in. And when supplies come in Hamas steals it.
They’re waging war against Hamas.
You misspelled “surrender”.
What do you all think Hamas was thinking when they panned Oct 7? They knew it would provoke a huge response from Israel
Did they think
I’d put my money on that, plus (for some at least) genuine religious fervor and/or hatred, damn the consequences.
bin Laden had essentially the same idea in mind with the 9/11 attacks. Not that he necessarily expected Muslim nations to join in his war against the US, but that he expected Muslim people to be provoked into action by the US’s overreaction and, in the near term at least, fight to overthrow their own governments to the extent they were complicit in American hegemony over the Middle East.
…that isn’t what the last 70 days of bombing suggests.
Specially civilian targets? Sure. Government buildings. Churches. Apartment blocks. Refugee camps. Schools. Mosques.
They’ve shut down over twenty hospitals.
Those hospitals were functional. Hamas was letting supplies get in. Then those hospitals were systematically surrounded by the IDF, supplies were cut off by the IDF, then the hospitals were raided by the IDF, hospital staff arrested by the IDF, then critical infrastructure was destroyed by the IDF, taking them out of action.
I’ve provided evidence for all of this in this thread. These are the facts. Undeniably. Indisputably.
Incorrect. The supplies were getting to the hospitals until the IDF cut the supply chain.
They are waging war against the civilian population. They have barely touched Hamas.
Or else what?