Which I answered. The people in this thread who argue that dead Palestinian children are the cost of ending Hamas are clearly stating that Palestinians have less value than Israelis, that they are less human.
Gaza’s have many legitimate grievances against the Israeli government. If killing Palestinian civilians is justified then so is killing Israeli civilians. Someone arguing that killing Palestinian civilians is justified to achieve Israel’s political goals, but killing Israeli children to achieve Hamas’ goals is not justified, is saying that Palestinians are worth less than Israelis, that they are not fully human the way Israelis are.
In this thread you have posters explicitly endorsing war crimes against Palestinians.
The people in this thread arguing for a ceasefire without a Hamas surrender are clearly stating that the lives of Palestinians are less valuable than their desire not to read about a war on the news.
No, we certainly do not. We do have posters who ignore Hamas’ actions in order to accuse Israel of war crimes, though.
36 children were killed in the Oct 7 raid. To date over 5000 children have been killed by Israelis in Gaza. Thousands more are now suffering the pain of burns, broken bones, crushed lungs and crushed internal organs, without access to medical care.
The deliberate imposition of death and pain on thousands of uninvolved children was not necessary. The oligarchs on both sides had options. The arrogance of believing that 36 deaths somehow justify the extreme suffering of thousands of innocents is unfathomable.
I certainly agree that Palestinians are people, and am certainly not upset by anyone pointing this out. But now that you quoted that phrase again, it occurs to me - sorry, madmonk28, you just learned that Palestinians are people now? What did you think they were before, a form of walrus?
I think that people who justify the killing of thousands of Palestinian children in response the killing of dozens of Israeli children are clear that they do not see Palestine as fully human. Even if they don’t admit it to themselves.
I think that embracing this dehumanizing world view is why nations allow atrocities to be committed in their name.
If posters talked about Israelis the way they talk about Palestine here, they would be rightly called out.
Gee, thanks for whitesplaining the Arab-Israeli conflict to me. I was so confused about my own thoughts and feelings, but now that some dude from thousands of miles away told me how I really feel, I realize I was faking all of my moral beliefs and I’m actually a genocidal monster.
There have been a handful of posters who posted very derogatory or Islamophobic ideas to this thread, and they were rightly called out, including by many of those on my “side”.
If you are referring to something I said, go ahead and call it out. I have attempted to be precise with my language to avoid painting all Palestinians with the brush reserved for Hamas, but I welcome criticism, despite the way you and others have tried to portray me in this thread.
Israel cannot destroy Hamas. That is a self serving political slogan. In evidence Israel has murdered (knowingly killed uninvolved civilians) tens of thousands of Gazans, devastated their infrastructure and displaced a significant percent of the population. And Hamas is still firing ineffective rockets in to Israel.
Since Hamas leadership is in Qatar, even depopulation of Gaza will not accomplish the stated goal. The Israeli oligarchs have chosen a durable slogan. The mission of the military is a fools errand.
My statement that they had options did not include the destruction of Hamas.
Hamas is a terrorist organization, not a person. If Hamas presence in Gaza is broken up to the point that they cannot rule Gaza nor pose a significant insurgency threat, who the fuck cares about a couple of billionaires in Qatar? Hamas would still be destroyed, even if they get to live out their lives in Qatari luxury (until their heart medication is mysteriously replaced with poison, or they suffer an unfortunate fall out a window, or…)
If the IDF gains control of the entire Gaza strip - which it is well on its way to doing -
And especially if the IDF successfully hands off control of the strip to whatever group the international community can rally behind - be that a revamped PA, a coallition of Arab states, whatever - then this would constitute the effective destruction of Hamas in the Gaza Strip.
You are clearly triggered by my comment that some posters here don’t view Palestinians as fully human, you keep coming back to it. I would urge you to explore why, is it possible that it resonates somewhere inside you and you don’t want to admit it?
When you find yourself supporting the killing thousands of children, ask yourself is there as much daylight between your side and Hamas as you would like.
I am sensitive to the claim that I don’t view Palestinians as human because it is the sort of blood libel that some, Hamas included, use to try and delegitimize the existence of the State of Israel, and it is part of a long lineage of claims that have been used to slaughter my people over the last 2,000 years. When someone starts to head down that path, I’m going to call that out.
For the billionth-and-one time - go ahead and propose and alternative method to get rid of Hamas.
If they had a chance of actually controlling Gaza the rocket attacks would have been shut down by now. At best they will reach an angle of repose, where Hamas will provide just the leverage Netanyahu needs to justify controlling what assets (political and monetary) Gaza has to offer. Hamas and Netanyahu are parasites feeding on the same host.
Get Netanyahu out of office, stop this ethnic cleansing campaign, bring in international peacekeeper, support a truth an reconciliation commission examine atrocities on all sides, bring the settlers to heel in the West Bank, punish settler violence committed against Palestinians, transition West Bank B and C zones into category A zones and return to the table to establish a two state solution
First we would need to start an ethnic cleansing campaign, which I strongly oppose.
When Hamas launches rockets are you expecting international peacekeepers to do something about that?
You do know that’s not how “peacekeepers” operate, right?
I would be ecstatic if international peacekeepers volunteered to remove Hamas from power without Israeli involvement. That would be fantastic, and would probably result in less fighting overall as I think Hamas would lose support faster and be forced to surrender sooner because of it.
But it isn’t how our world or the UN work, unfortunately.
The time for international peacekeepers will be after Hamas is removed from power.
Sure, I’m down
Absolutely! I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Rabin was 100% correct when he said that settler ideology is a cancer on the Israeli body politic.
Agreed, settlers who commit violence are terrorists and should be treated as such.
I agree, we need a two state solution, I’ve said this all along.
Then never. This operation is a Hamas recruiting drive and Netanyahu knows it. Once he’s pushed Palestinians into a smaller ghetto, he merely has to wait until they lash out again to continue the ethnic cleansing.
You can keep insisting that to be the case, and I will keep telling you that this is ridiculous and based on a misunderstanding of the state of Israeli politics. There is no way that Netanyahu survives this. This isn’t his war. There is a reason why all of his rivals either joined the unity government or have refrained from attacking it to hard, and that is that at the moment the entire spectrum of Israeli politicians agrees that Hamas must be taken out. That’s why Israeli criticism for Bibi isn’t focused on railing against a war we all agree is necessary, but about the way he is allowing his religious right allies to rob the country blind in the middle of that war.
But by all means, keep whitesplaining Israeli politics to me. It’s fascinating, in much the same way an alternate history novel is.
Just out of curiosity what is the number of dead Palestinian children where you would draw the line? How many would it take for you to think that it wasn’t worth it?
