According to an objective analysis of whether its end goal is the achievement of the greatest possible good for the greatest possible number.
I mostly tuned out of the MCU after Winter Soldier was little more than a heavy-handed attempt at saying “DRONE WARFARE BAD” but was unable to give a coherent reason why without inventing an absurd scenario that would never occur in the real world and broke the entire setting. (See also Star Trek: Into Darkness and the Robocop remake.)
Guardians of the Galaxy and Wandavision and Loki were good, though.
There was a war going on in 1942 Poland, as well. So I guess the Holocaust was just fine by you, then.
“There is a war going on” excuses nothing.
Torture OK, granny-murder OK, baby-sniping OK, genocide OK, if you’re the “Good Guys”?
What “objective” measure of “good” are you using? It’s not the least harm to the most amount of people, that’s for sure.
Seems like it’s “whatever Israel wants”, to me.
What, having a computer doing pre-crime on potentially dangerous individuals then blowing them up? Yeah, patently absurd:
Only if you think the Nazi cause was just. I happen to disagree about that.
The Allies easily killed millions of civilians in WWII. None of their leaders went on trial in Nuremberg.
That which produces the best possible outcome in the long run - I.e. peace, freedom, and safety for the people of Israel and Palestine.
Like “what if the people in charge of the drones were secretly part of a Nazi cabal that’s been running the US government for 70 years without anyone noticing and this includes the people who up until this point have unambiguously not been secret fascists plotting world domination and who don’t even need to enact this evil plan in the first place since they can already do whatever they want with impunity up to and including assassinating heads of state and world-famous supergeniuses who somehow never figured out that all their coworkers were evil”.
By what “objective” measure?
Anything the winners did was OK. Gotcha.
You think genociding the Palestinians is going to produce peace, freedom and safety for Israel?
Well, I guess the dead are peaceful…
That part of it wasn’t a scenario they invented. It comes straight from the comics, unrelated to the drone warfare analogy of Project Insight.
Asked and answered.
I’ve been telling you for awhile now that “war crimes” is nothing more than an ad hoc justification for the winner taking vengeance on the defeated for doing the same things they did. Sounds like you’re starting to understand.
There’s only been one genocide attempted in Israel recently and the Palestinians aren’t the victims of it.
I guess it’s clear which side of the trolley problem you fall on.
Doesn’t change the fact that it makes no sense, breaks the established continuity of the setting, and in no way justifies the director’s attempted statement.
Where? Quote this answer, please.
I’ve understood that you think that, for a while, yes. Just highlighting the crux of this for other readers.
Not that that’s what war crime laws are about. Quite the opposite.
Sure, buddy.
Tell that to TOWP…
I don’t do trolley problems. They’re morally bankrupt excuses for pushing the cult of utilitarianism and reducing ethics to mathematics.
Doesn’t change the fact that it wasn’t “invented” for the drone analogy.
So you’d rather let ten people die than save them at the cost of one.
Certainly explains why you think liberating the Palestinian people from their oppressors is “genocide”.
No, I’d rather not get maths all over my ethics, TYVM.
Although if I were prone to maths, I’d be noting the absurdly disparate civilian kill ratios between Hamas and the IDF, especially in the matter of dead children and grannies, and note that you’d rather kill a hundred to save one, as long as that one was Israeli and the hundred weren’t.
Aah, yes, the Bến Tre sense of “liberating”, so utilitarian…
Also, neat trick, for the oppressors to be doing the liberating from the oppressors. I guess the Palestinians can tell them apart by the colour of their hats.
I feel obliged to say that I’m a huge fan of utilitarianism and the use of math (on at least a conceptual level) in moral decision making, but the trolley problem is not ethics, it is farce.
Hamas are enemies of the Palestinian people too, you know.
I’m sorry, you’re the one actively supporting a lot more than ten Palestinians dying to save one Israeli life.
Hamas isn’t the one bombing hospitals and tent cities.
Wow, I had no idea
So having one other oppressor in the equation magically makes the Israelis not oppressors, is that some of this utilitarian maths I’m supposed to be practicing?
You would think that the only people we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People’s Front, but the Israelis have really done the impossible in Gaza and so we see groups like the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine allying with Hamas and attacking Israeli armour near hospitals.
That, bent my brain. I don’t usually post in this type of thread, but I read them.
You are honestly suggesting that Hamas are the oppressors, rather than the State of Israel, who have walled the Palestinians in and control every aspect of food and water supply? And their access to work, travel, and personal freedom?
I not a Hamas fan, by any means, but the oppressors are not Hamas.
Israel’s actions have been necessary because of Hamas. There is no way the lives of the Gazan people improve unless Hamas is removed from power.
This is true @Smapti
But then, if Hamas is destroyed what will the Israeli oppressors do?
Give up and leave? Tear down the walls?
Somehow I doubt it.
At that point there should be no further need for what you call “oppression” provided that Israel takes the opportunity to rebuild what’s been destroyed and show the Gazan people a better way.
Good luck with that exceptionally optimistic outcome.
Have you seen how Gaza has been effectively razed to the ground?
Blowing away those kids and grannies with sniper rounds was never necessary.
And what was their excuse before 2006? And what will it be in 2026?
And this “better way” Israel will show the Palestinians - will it include allowing Palestinians to settle stolen Israeli land? Or is that just a “do as I say, not do as I do” kind of showing?