I have. Have you considered the possibility that Israel is discouraging and decreasing the likelihood of future attacks?
Aren’t they already dying painfully — and publicly — while dehydrated and starving? Isn’t that what’s, y’know, happening?
So are you in favor of publicly torturing Gazan children?
…Israel ratified the Geneva conventions in 1951. The “the Israeli High Court has found that the 1907 Hague Regulations are part of customary international law, and thus binding on all states, including those not party to the treaty.”
Did I expect Israel to abide by the things they agreed to abide by? Sure. This is pretty basic stuff. This is ridiculously basic stuff.
I’m glad we have it here in black and white.
The_Other_Waldo_Pepper supports the IDF committing atrocities.
They are.
And for the sake of clarity, based on your previous answer, you support Palestinian children dying painfully while dehydrated and starving?
Because surely you don’t. I don’t want to get the wrong impression here. Surely you condemn at least this?
You expected wrong. You expected incorrectly. Possibly those who carried out the 10/7 attack likewise expected wrong — expected incorrectly — and, if they’d known better, would’ve reached a very different conclusion.
Seriously: is there anything I can say to you that wouldn’t provoke a “for the sake of clarity” in response? What possible incentive do I have to give you yet another other clear response when everything I slowly and patiently explain seems to result in you giving a quick “for the sake of clarity” reply?
I think I can explain why this is difficult for you – for most people, deliberately torturing and killing little children is absolutely reprehensible, and when we see someone apparently proudly supporting it, we have trouble believing our eyes – surely we must be misunderstanding something. So we seek to clarify. Does that make sense?
…so Israel is a country not to be trusted.
Gotcha.
Because I’m trying to help you.
I’m giving you every single opportunity to get out of the position you are in. I’m giving you a lifeline.
I’m giving you the opportunity to say, “no, you misunderstand me. Of course, I don’t support the deliberate blockade of food, water, baby formula from Palestinian children. Of course I’m not the sort of person that supports Palestinian children dying painfully while dehydrated and starving. That isn’t who I am.”
So again for clarity: do you support Palestinian children dying painfully while dehydrated and starving? Because it’s possible to both support Israel AND condemn this.
The audience for this militant theater is not the Gazans, it’s the Israelis. The propaganda value of the Gaza offensive is negative outside of Israel. But, domestically it supports the omnipotent IDF myth and has kept Netanyahu in office.
The argument that extreme cruelty will dissuade repetition lacks historic support. Lidice is a monument against cruelty not assassination. A Gazan patriot who finds a rocket in the rubble will fire it,
But, again, the context for all of this is that I’m supporting what Israel is, well, doing. Said children are already painfully dying while dehydrated and starving, and — do you have trouble believing your eyes? Are you surely misunderstanding something (a) not just about anyone expressing support for it, but (b) about everyone doing it?
Oh. Well, then, uh, I’m trying to help you, too.
The vast majority of supporters I’ve spoken to (online or IRL) deny that any signficant number of children are painfully dying while dehydrated or starving – because, as I said before, most people wouldn’t be able to support such torture of children no matter the circumstances. You’re one of the very few, other than the open genocide supporters, who both admit this and support it without reservations.
…nah. I want the death and destruction happening right now in Gaza to stop. I want the ceasefire agreement on the table, which would result in all of the hostages being released, Hamas stepping down from power and the permanent withdrawal of IDF troops from the ground to happen.
I want the 6000 aid trucks currently stationed outside of Gaza allowed in. I want Palestinians in Gaza to be allowed to return to their homes. I want the thousands of prisoners, many, if not most of them probably innocent of anything, held in Israeli torture camps released.
Supporting IDF atrocities does absolutely nothing to help me out.
I’d argue that the relevant comparison is less Lidice and more Nagasaki.
Presumably the poster wanted to make sure that you were taking the stance that murdering people for swimming is OK.
Because the attacks on 10/7 were made by just a small number of people and you are using that act by a small number to justify killing tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people, most of whom are unlikely to have been even indirectly involved, much less directly. You are coming out in favor of genocide.
Just wanted to be sure before coming to that conclusion.
The difference is that every so often other nations do decide to enforce international law. It’s called an alliance. Sometimes they use sanctions. Sometimes they use actual force. And the subsequent mess is called a war.
If Israel continues to keep pissing off other nations they are risking the formation of an alliance that will come in and force them to adhere to international norms. If they’re fortunate that will be the outcome. Is that really in Israel’s best interests?
It sure as hell is not in the best interests of non-Israeli Jews who will, inevitably, be caught in the blowback.
A key difference is that no one is going to come riding in over the horizon to come to the aid of the SovCit. On the other hand, international law has from time to time been enforced by force. So your analogy is wrong and it sucks.
Since Hamas has long arranged things to target civilians in an attempt to gain international sympathy I’d say that the results of 10/7 are EXACTLY what they wanted and they’d do it again…nevermind that I personally am horrified and appalled by both what Hamas has done and what IDF has done in response.
It is a mistake to assume that what we find horrific is what others find horrific. Terror groups like Hamas have no care for civilians beyond how they can be used as pawns for the cause. Israel slaughtering Palestinians in ethnic cleansing and genocide plays into the hands of people like Hamas and their backers the ruling cabal in Iran because it makes the Israelis (and by extension all Jews everywhere) into horrible people that no one likes, no one will defend, and therefore easier to destroy in the end.
No, it looks like this time they’re taking care of the “next generation attempting vengeance” by simply conducting a genocide to ensure none of the orphans survive. Just kill them all and none will be left to take vengeance, right?
Excuse me, I have to go throw up now. The whole thing is disgusting and anyone who defends such a thing is a horrible human being.
So you’re OK with the slaughter of innocents, ethnic cleansing, and genocide. What a horrible person you are.
^ This. So very much this. I am so glad I have never set foot in that country, I have zero desire to purchase anything made there (and will make sure I don’t - my economic vote is small but I’ll still use it), and I will condemn their actions any time I can. The people running the country are as bad as the Nazis and should be treated the same.
And you’re glad of that? You support that. You’ve stated unequivocally that you support that. I don’t know what to say to someone in favor of slowing killing babies.
^ This. He’s OK with atrocities, murder, ethnic cleansing, and genocide.
Wow. Well, has anyone started a Pit thread just for him? I mean, I defend his right to state his opinions but I also defend the right of everyone else to tell him what a depraved, evil, disgusting, horrible, evil person he actually is.
Unlike myself, who am now convinced that you are indeed a support of ethnic cleansing and genocide this poster is apparently still hoping to be mistaken about your stance.
Because it can be hard to realize someone you’ve known for awhile - even if only on a message board - is as bad as the WWII Nazis and their Final Solution.
No, I mean that you seemed to need help with the concept that — for example — one can reasonably expect a given response from someone even while noting that they’re not incapable of reacting in other ways. Stuff like that.
How so. I don’t see the relevance. Nagasaki did not prevent Oct 7. What’s your point?
That, sometimes, an attack that kills rather a lot of civilians — as was the case when Nagasaki got bombed, some time after December 7th — can succeed.
…no. This isn’t what one would reasonably expect a signatory to the Geneva conventions to do. One would expect they would adhere to the conventions and uphold the principles of international humanitarian law. One would expect that when official spokespeople from the government say over and over again that “they do not target civilians in Gaza” they would be telling the truth. But it turns out its all lies.
All you are doing is telling me that the government of Israel are not to be trusted. I’ll concede my naivety here. I won’t be doing that again.
Wouldn’t genocide work even better? If you think the present strategy is dissuading future attacks, wouldn’t killing every last Gazan and Palestinian be even more dissuasive, from your perspective?
Here’s a major difference:
After Nagasaki was bombed the US did NOT herd the survivors into progressively smaller and smaller areas, shoot on sight any Japanese citizen found outside those small areas, and actually sent medical help to the injured survivors.
Unlike the IDF which is squeezing the Palestinians at every opportunity, shooting them on sight, and instead of sending in medical assistance leaves babies to die in incubators, shoots children in the head, and denies even water to the injured and ill.
If you can’t see those differences … well, you’re already a terrible, horrific, no-good excuse of a human being.