…I’m not claiming they have come out publicly. My post was about “politics 101.” How the movement should just go along with AOC and Bernie even if many are more aligned with the tactics and strategy of Tlaib and Omar.
It depends on whether you want to get things passed or not. AOC and Sanders are both much more effective politicians in the sense of successfully pushing policy through Congress, and in my Liberal movement, that’s one of the most major factors that I want us to pick candidates based on.
The Progressive movement doesn’t always seem to pick its leaders by the same criteria. 
One very good internal analysis I saw a long time ago suggested that this is because the movement is more concerned with critiquing power than wielding it, and I think that’s very true.
It would be cheapest of all if Hamas agreed to disarm.
If Hamas didn’t immediately seize the shelter and start fighting out of it, then yes, civilian bomb shelters would obviously save many Palestinian lives, just like Israeli bomb shelters saved many Israeli lives when Iran lobbed ballistic missiles at apartment buildings.
By “go along" you mean not send them threats and vandalize their offices?
…do you want me to condemn the death threats and the vandalisation of the offices again?
I’ll do it in caps this time. I LOUDLY CONDEMN THE DEATH THREATS AGAINST AOC AND THE VANDALISATION OF HER OFFICES.
There you go. People shouldn’t do that. And since we don’t even know who did either of these things, let’s stop assuming it was done by supporters of Tlaib and Omar and just condemn the crimes for the crimes that they are.
…no, it would be cheaper if Israel stopped dropping the bombs, shooting them and starving them.
Perhaps at the very least stop the starvation. Can Israel do that at least? Let UNRWA do their job.
The problem is that they weren’t doing their job; they were arming Hamas and holding hostages in the homes of their staff and housing Hamas under their HQ.
If a terrorist group from right next door ever does an Oct 7 style attack on New Zealand, you’re welcome to negotiate with them as much as you’d like. But the idea that Israel should tolerate Hamas continuing to exist as an armed group is ludicrous.
Where does the top Hamas leadership currently reside?
…the title of that article:
It’s an unverified claim.
From UNRWA:
https://www.unrwa.org/unrwa-claims-versus-facts-2025
20 months of allegations. Multiple requests for information and evidence.
They haven’t received a single response.
Do you know what I hope my government wouldn’t do?
I would hope they wouldn’t deliberately target journalists, aid workers, healthcare workers, hospitals, schools, churches, Mosques in response.
I would hope that my government would abide by the Geneva conventions and International Humanitarian law.
I would hope that my government wouldn’t set up a siege, stopping everything from food and water and medical equipment and baby food and tent from getting into the country. I would hope my country didn’t flatten most of the buildings and force the surviving population into less than 10% of the land, having to live in squalor and filth.
I would hope that my government wouldn’t intentionally engineer a famine.
And if it did: I’d be doing everything in my power to stop them.
Considering what is happening to the Palestinians in Gaza right now, why does this even matter?
Open the gates. Let in the food. Let the trucks in by the thousands, every single day. Don’t let it stop.
And go find those top Hamas leadership and take them out with pagers. You don’t need to continue the siege.
In other words, UNRWA SAYS:
It matters in the context of what Israel is actually trying to achieve at this point. If their goal is eliminating Hamas, why haven’t they taken out its leadership? It was an honest question because IIRC they are in Qatar. That might be different now, I don’t know. But it toppling Hamas is the goal I do wonder why they haven’t been taken out. Mossad is quite capable of it, and if they are in Qatar I don’t see why that would stop the Israeli government. They were willing to directly attack Iran, an actual threat. Qatar isn’t going to do a thing. The continued existence of Hamas leadership does make me question Israel’s actual goals in this conflict.
…as opposed to “Israel says?”
Do you think UNRWA are lying here, and that Israel HAS provided the information and evidence? Are you able to provide it?
Fair enough.
I don’t think anyone here has an issue with the progressives voting differently on amendments or having different opinions on if Israel is carrying out a genocide or a horrific slaughter that might not technically be a genocide. The only thing we’ve been harping on is the hate aimed at some of them by morons who don’t realize they’re on the same side.
I think Rashida Tlaib and Bernie Sanders do realize they’re on the same side and I don’t think them not being in 100% agreement is an issue for either of them.
Yes, *obviously*.
…I don’t advocate for hate. I’m just expressing disagreement.
…then show me the information and evidence.
This journalist went through the tunnels and took pictures. He saw the Hamas barracks rooms and the data center. There was similar testimony from the journalist in the previous article I linked, so it’s pretty silly to claim that it’s just Israel’s word.
…that’s an embedded journalist. It’s a newspaper article. He saw some rooms people had been living in. A bunch of computer racks.
All of that is in the public domain. None of that is actual evidence of the allegations.
It’s still just unverified claims. If the IDF just sent UNRWA a link to the article, do you really think that’s sufficient?
He saw a giant fortified fucking tunnel that all this shit was in, my dude.
The tunnel network under the UNRWA HQ is not evidence of a tunnel network under the UNRWA HQ? OK man.
……………..What? Why does the IDF need to send UNRWA an article about UNRWA’s own HQ? Sufficient for what?
…I’ve seen the “giant fortified fucking tunnel.”
It’s just a tunnel.
The tunnel is just evidence of a tunnel. UNRWA can’t verify whether or not it was actually under the UNRWA HQ or not. It doesn’t know if those were “Hamas datacentres” or something else.
Sufficient for the allegations that have been made.
Because the consequences of this sustained campaign against UNRWA have been devastating for the Palestinians living in Gaza. Its ultimately lead to famine.
So if you are going to make incendiary claims about the organisation, you better be able to back it up. But all you’ve got are a handful of newspaper articles making unverified allegations.