/r/thathappened
Suppose an IDF member had reported that he witnessed or was ordered to shoot unarmed civilians in the back (or otherwise posed no threat). Would you agree that this is good evidence of IDF atrocities?
Depends on how reliable their testimony is.
What I have seen evidence of is soldiers who were ordered to shoot groups that they didn’t consider a threat and that they complained about being told to do so. I haven’t seen any evidence that they were right about these groups being no threat, and if a group of people is moving into an area you’ve restricted and are ignoring multiple warnings to stop, obviously you are going to shoot.
We saw the same BS years ago with the so-called “March of Return”. People tried to argue that it was wrong to shoot people who were actively trying to cut a hole in the border fence. Obviously you are going to get shot if you try to do that.
The benefit of the doubt you extend to the Israeli government and IDF is just breathtaking. I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen anything like it (outside of Trumper media, perhaps).
That’s because you haven’t looked in the mirror at the benefit of doubt you extend to the Palestinians and their leaders.
By the way, I assumed you were bringing up that “shot in the back” scenario because you had a supposed example? Or did you just hear vague allusions to that scenario on BlueSky or X and assume they were real?
How about a cite for this? In what post did I extend any benefit of the doubt, specifically, to “Palestinians” or “their leaders”?
I wanted to see if there was a point. Obviously there’s not. You’ll find a way to dismiss any evidence brought, as you have so far. I think you’re not able to even consider the possibility that some of the moral void of Netanyahu and his allies might have trickled into the IDF, no matter the facts.
I mean, if the claim you have actually had strong evidence in its favor, I’ll definitely consider it. But you saying “Netanyahu is a rotten meanie, why wouldn’t you believe anything bad I say about any organization he’s associated with just because of that?” is not very convincing. Especially when opposite him are murderers like Hamas’ leadership and Abbas with his PHD in Holocaust denial. If Netanyahu is a moral void, they are moral rot. I’ll definitely agree that Netanyahu has no morals, but these guys are worse; they have bad morals.
I looked up your claim and I can’t find it, even on Blood Libel specialist outlets like Al Jazeera (though there’s only so long I can spend giving ad revenue to Qatari royalty). So either present your claim and the evidence for it, or admit it’s spurious BS.
I’m sure as hell not endorsing Bibi, Smotrich, or Ben Gvir. They should all be in jail.
My point is that the only way that Israel can distribute aid at the level needed and actually get it into the hands of civilians is for Hamas to be gone. Until then, the aid will not make it where it needs to go no matter how many trucks cross the border.
In one incident, the soldier was instructed to fire a shell toward a crowd gathered near the coastline. “Technically, it’s supposed to be warning fire – either to push people back or stop them from advancing,” he said. “But lately, firing shells has just become standard practice. Every time we fire, there are casualties and deaths, and when someone asks why a shell is necessary, there’s never a good answer. Sometimes, merely asking the question annoys the commanders.”
In that case, some people began to flee after the shell was fired, and according to the soldier, other forces subsequently opened fire on them. “If it’s meant to be a warning shot, and we see them running back to Gaza, why shoot at them?” he asked. “Sometimes we’re told they’re still hiding, and we need to fire in their direction because they haven’t left. But it’s obvious they can’t leave if the moment they get up and run, we open fire.”
This is just a snippet of a Haaretz report that details several incidents – but yes, it’s a fact that (according to Haaretz) IDF members have reported witnessing or being ordered to shoot unarmed civilians who were running away.
Similar reports from a US contractor:
I don’t remotely believe this. Israel hasn’t even tried. The “best” they tried was putting a bunch of incompetent evangelical Trump pals, with zero experience or expertise in distributing aid in a war zone, in charge of distributing aid in Gaza. That’s not remotely a good faith effort by Israel to ensure desperate Gazans are getting what they need.
Got it, so you’re retracting the claims made in these posts?
I no longer believe there’s any such difference. Netanyahu and his allies are as monstrous as Hamas’s leadership. As bad as humans get. Knowingly presiding over mass atrocities and widespread avoidable civilian deaths.
For what it’s worth, I believe Trump is just as bad. He just hasn’t (yet) had an “opportunity” in which he saw widespread avoidable civilian deaths as somehow beneficial to himself.
I’m happy to address the new claims you’re now making, but I just want to confirm we’re fully done with the motte and have moved on the the bailey.
Motte-and-bailey fallacy - Wikipedia.
You admit that there aren’t any Israeli soldiers claiming they were ordered to shoot unarmed civilians in the back, now, right?
I just quoted it. Shooting at civilians running away.
Again:
some people began to flee after the shell was fired, and according to the soldier, other forces subsequently opened fire on them.
…you’re not serious. There’s no way you’re this bad faith.
I literally quoted an IDF soldier reporting witnessing other soldiers shooting fleeing civilians.
We went from “An Israeli soldier testified that he shot civilians in the back” to “An Israeli soldier says he was shooting at one group that began to move and then someone else shot towards them”.
You’re too intelligent for me to believe that you actually think these two claims are remotely equivalent.
Funny how neither of those quotes are from me. Maybe read my words more carefully?