Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023

…and I’m still waiting for Israel to do something about Netanyahu and Gallant. They can’t even get Netanyahu on corruption. How pathetic.

And while we are at it, the United States of America are also shirking its responsibilities to international law in hosting Netanyahu and Gallant. They arrested Maduro. Why can’t they arrest Netanyahu?

We shouldn’t have kidnapped Maduro in the first place.

…but America should arrest Netanyahu. Or at the very least ban him from the country.

And when will the Israeli authorities be prosecuting Netanyahu, Gallant and all the others that are responsible for atrocities in Gaza, the West Bank, and in the network of torture camps that they are running up and down the country? You can throw Ben-Gvir’s name in there as well.

No, we shouldn’t. It’s not our job to be the world police.

That’s up to them to figure out.

…LOL.

So it’s up to Hamas to figure things out as well then.

I’m glad we’ve finally got some moral consistency going on now.

No one is even trying to refute these allegations. Even when they’ve been reported and supported by Israeli lawyers. They’re just insisting they can’t possibly be true, and the great masses of Palestinian prisoners and former prisoners (including many children!) reporting them must be lying.

What if they are true?

And no one tries to refute claims that the British royal family are reptilian aliens that drink human blood and control the international drug trade either.

We already know, from video and medical evidence, that the IDF allows rape without prosecution. These are just further reported cases consistent with what we already know.

We know that you claim that’s what happens.

So does the Israeli doctor who treated the victim. But what would he know?

I get it. Excusing and rationalizing rape is really hard. It’s much, much easier to just pretend it doesn’t exist, regardless of the evidence.

I believe the official statement is plausible. The video is not a smoking gun for assault, even paired with medical testimony. Additional evidence is needed to tie the two together because the acts on video are obscured by shields and poor angles and the low quality makes it difficult to identify individuals. But most important, per the IDF, the victim made apparently contradictory statements which would undermine the case, unless the victim can fix his tesimony in court. Possibly the statements were about which officers participated in the assault. Possibly the statements were inconsistent with the medical testimony. Either way the defense could use these statements to discredit the other evidence. That the original prosecutor illegally leaked evidence to the press is less problematic for the case, IMO.

I think what probably happened is that there was an assault (not necessarily rape or anal penetration). The IDF itself all but admits there was an assault, but they can’t actually say that without a conviction. More speculatively, I think after the old prosecutor resigned, higher ups said the victim will be shipped out with the first prisoner swap, he will not be asked or allowed back into Israel to testify, and the case will be dropped. I feel that if the IDF asked the victim to return and testify, and the victim refused, that would be in their explanation.

Ironically, and sadly, I suspect the original prosecutor, who confessed to leaking the video to the press and is currently in Israeli custody, will be fully prosecuted and convicted.

~Max

“Some think”? WHO? Who here has said this?

All of this would have easily been resolved with an actual investigation that was intended to get to the truth rather than cover up an atrocity. But the Israeli government is showing with this, and countless incidents in the West Bank and Gaza, that it has no interest in punishing atrocities against Palestinians.

…I don’t.

For starters: this isn’t an isolated case.

I’ve posted dozens more reports and articles about Palestinians being humiliated, sexually assaulted, beaten and tortured in Israeli detention. This didn’t start after October 7th. It goes back decades.

Do you want to guess how many times anyone has been found accountable?

This time they had it on camera. It should have been a slam dunk.

But why do you think the (former) Chief Advocate felt they had to leak the footage? Don’t you think that suggests something important?

These are torture camps. It was captured on video. We only ever saw it because it was leaked. We can see it with our own eyes. And still people look for reasons not to believe.

Kristoff reports that several Palestinians told him they were sexually abused by dogs. Maybe it happened, maybe not. But to hear the Zionists tell it, you’d think the claim being made is that the IDF has some massive secret compound where they were training rape dogs by the thousands.

This is standard hasbara technique: when a story critical of Israel is published, find the least credible claim or the least trustworthy source cited and hyperfocus on denouncing that and claiming it proves the author’s antisemitism, while ignoring everything else in the article.

If we assume everything in that article is a lie except for what is quoting official Israeli sources, it’s STILL incredibly damning.