You don’t find it troubling that a supposed human rights organization lied about the majority of the supposed “reporters” who were killed? You don’t think this pokes a hole in the idea that Israel deliberately targets journalists? Fair enough, I guess positions that weren’t arrived at by reason to begin with aren’t really subject to debunking.
First off, why should we trust your link? I’ve never heard of the organization that produced it. Why do you consider them credible? Second, it appears that their criteria for considering someone a “member” of a terrorist group doesn’t involve actually committing terrorism — any affiliation at all with such organizations is apparently justification for killing them. Lastly, even taking this hasbara at face value, there are still over a hundred legitimate journalists who have been killed!
You shouldn’t! Unlike the CJP, they aren’t asking you to trust them, they’re showing their work.
Yes? Do you know how war works? Hamas, PIJ, and their cohorts attacked Israel and are now at war with Israel. Do you think Hamas support personnel are protected?
Lol, scary Hebrew words 
Apparently Jew propaganda is so scary it needs a special seekret word.
There is very little difference between the insistence that anything Jewish people say about Israel is “hasbara” and the right wing obsession with calling every time a Muslim makes a claim you disagree with “taqiyya”. The horseshoe really is circular these days.
The claim the anti"Zionist" side makes isn’t “journalists died”, it’s “Israel deliberately targets journalists in order to cover up the gEnOcIdE”. And their evidence for this is a list of 266 people most of whom are indeed terrorists.
This is a joke. They aren’t remotely “showing their work”. They make unsupported claims, like that Anas Al Sharif was a militant member of Hamas.
This is just mass murder apologia. It’s meant to give a patina of legitimacy to supporters of Israel who aren’t willing to openly support mass murder of civilians. It’s not meant to actually convince anyone skeptical of official Israeli justifications for atrocities.
Wasnt he one of the Journalists that you claimed were blocked from getting into Gaza?
The problem here is we have a Journalist embedded into Gaza by Al Jazeera, and clearly biased. Could he be part of Hamas? Maybe, but how can you tell either way? They dont wear uniforms or carry ID cards. Nor was it claimed that all those Journalist were Hamas- most were " affiliated with terrorist organizations, primarily Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ".
This study- altho certainly biased- does have methodology and seems legit.
Yes, legit Journalists die during war. Ernie Pyle for instance. They die even when not specially targeted (which is against the Conventions). Marie Colvin, Giles Duley / Tim Hetherington / Chris Hondros, and many others. Often by indirect action, sometimes by other bad stuff. It is a dangerous job. If you are in a war zone and you are hit by rocket/mortar, etc fire, it is a tragedy, but not a warcrime. If you ID yourself and they line you up against a wall and shoot you anyway, like Joseph Morton by the Gestapo, that is a warcrime. (and the SS General who ordered the killing of Morton was executed as a war criminal.).
So, this is a tough call. If killed by indirect fire in a war zone, “you knew the job was dangerous when you took it.” Lined up against the wall and executed after IDing- warcrime.
This isn’t remotely just collateral damage. Journalists in Gaza are directly threatened and then targeted for death by IDF forces:
…for the purposes of debate, let’s accept this number.
Do you concede that Israel has targeted and killed over 100 journalists since October 7th, 2023? And that the “Israel Defense Forces (has still) has committed more targeted killings of journalists than any other government’s military since CPJ began documentation in 1992?”
…I’m not sure what you are suggesting here. Al Jazeera is biased. The Jerusalem Post is also biased. Israeli journalists, almost all of them have served in the IDF, are embedded in Gaza.
Are Isreali journalists legitimate targets?
Here is video footage of an Isreali TV presenter taking part in blowing up a building.
Is he a combatant? A terrorist? Am I biased because I used a video on Al Jazeera’s YouTube channel? Do you not believe the reporting because of who reported it? What is the bigger issue here, that I cited Al Jazeera or a reporter is taking part in what is probably a warcrime?
They dont wear uniforms or carry ID cards.
They are wearing blue reporters vests if they are targeted in the field or they are wearing normal civilian clothes when they are targeted (along with their families) in their family homes. What clothes do you suggest they wear when they are cooking dinner for their kids?
If you are in a war zone and you are hit by rocket/mortar, etc fire, it is a tragedy, but not a warcrime.
But we are talking about over 200 documented cases of targeted killings. We know the details of how all of these journalists were killed. Some of them got phone calls to tell them they were targets. We can’t pretend that didn’t happen. We can’t pretend we don’t know how they died. They were not accidental or incidental killings. They were targeted killings.
No, of course not. The fact that the CPJ lied about 60% of the names they gave doesn’t mean that everyone else was ‘targeted’. In fact, the research paper does mention what the strikes that killed actual journalists were targeting. It is unfortunate that Hamas ensures their military operations occur in places that put civilians at risk, but that is a deliberate action on Hamas’ part.
…no, we aren’t. You and some NGO saying “this was targeted” doesn’t make it so, especially when over half the people you claim were targeted for being journalists were actually terrorists.
…no, they didn’t. Some of them got phone calls telling them to evacuate their homes, because their homes were in a place being used by Hamas or PIJ for military operations.
This is not remotely a fact. It’s an unsupported statement made by Israeli apologists.
…why not?
The allegation that the CPJ has “lied” here is a serious one. We should take it seriously.
Your cite doesn’t allege any lies. I’ve reviewed the documents, and they don’t go that far as far as I can see. So where does the claim of “lies” come from? What lies are you specifically talking about?
In fact: on reviewing the report it says things like this a lot:
“Organizational Affiliation: Apparently affiliated with Hamas.”
Bolding mine. That doesn’t really sound definitive to me.
And the fact that this organisation operates within “the Center for the Commemoration of the Heritage and Intelligence Community,” which some describe that as the “the public face of the Israeli intelligence community,” doesn’t exactly paint them as a neutral, unbiased source.
Yeah we are.
It isn’t just one NGO. Multiple press agencies and multiple independent NGO’s report both this and higher numbers. I’m perfectly happy to accept the CPJ numbers, even the reduced numbers. I see no reason why we shouldn’t.
And we know the circumstances of each death.
Cite please. Not just “afflilated with Hamas” because Hamas was the government and everyone who worked for the government was Hamas, including paramedics and hospital workers and aid workers. Cite that they were terrorists.
Yeah they did.
Anas al-Sharif: an actual journalist (and not an operative as claimed by the report and the IDF), received threats both over the phone and live on air.
The scale of destruction in Gaza fits a pattern of intentional destruction, often just for the sake of destruction. There is no clear pattern of targeting Hamas or the PIJ.
I mean, he was a terrorist, according to Hamas’ own records. If you want to pretend otherwise, I cannot stop you, but it’s a fact.
If we pretend that terrorists like al-Shariff were not terrorists, we can make all kinds of claims about the conflict. Doesn’t make them true.
This is not remotely a factual statement. At most, an Israeli-intelligence-produced document says someone with that name once did some training with Hamas, many years ago.
…According to the IDF, they have a spreadsheet with a line item that says that many years ago he may have been a soldier. We’ve seen a screenshot of the spreadsheet entry. I’m not convinced. Neither are organisations like the CPJ.
They use the word murdered. Pretty unequivocal. And his name is still there even after the recent purge.
There is no evidence he was a “terrorist.” There is no evidence that he was an active combatant. He was deliberately targeted and murdered. A warcrime.
The thing is: this goes both ways.
If we pretend journalists like al-Shariff were terrorists, we can make all kinds of claims about the conflict. Doesn’t make them true. Like the claim that the CPJ are lying. The claim that the IDF doesn’t target journalists. The evidence, even if we believe the 60% number, still supports the claim that the IDF deliberately targets journalists.
The CPJ, which has lied literally hundreds of times defending terrorists as “journalists”, is not convinced? Oh, no! Anyways…
Yes, because they are lying propagandists whose goal is to convince the ignorant that Israel is an evil bloodthirsty and illegitimate entity. That’s why they ignore all the evidence that al-Shariff was a terrorist in order to use loaded language like ‘mUrDeReD’.
The difference is that there is hard evidence showing al-Shariff was a terrorist. He appears in Hamas’ own documents.
There is exactly 0 evidenc that the IDF targets journalists. The fact that sometimes journalists die does not mean that they are deliberately targeted, and thw CPJ has shown exactly 0 evidence of deliberate targeting. There is quite literally infinitely more evidence that al-Shariff was a terrorist than that the IDF has ever deliberately targeted a journalist.
…when did they lie?
So to be clear here: you are accusing The Committee to Protect Journalists, an American nonprofit that has been standing up for journalists since 1981, of being “lying propagandists”?
You do understand the difference between a terrorist, a combatant, and an alleged combatant, right?
The evidence suggests he might have been a soldier many years ago. Just like how almost every single Israeli journalist has also served. Does being a soldier make you a terrorist? Because in that case, every single Israeli journalist is also a terrorist.
I’ve just provided six cites. The IDF has a single line item from a spreadsheet that doesn’t even suggest he was a terrorist. That isn’t “more evidence.” Let’s just start with the claim “he was a terrorist”: you’ve literally provided zero evidence of that.
Just once again for the record, this is not a factual statement. Unsupported IDF/Israeli Intel assertions are not facts.
Are you comparing a national army to a terrorist group like Hamas?
You linked six articles each of which has significantly less evidence than “a single line item from a spreadsheet”. They have conjecture and hearsay.
…I was asking you a question.
And the IDF are guilty of multiple atrocities and terror attacks. They don’t get a pass just because they are a “national army.”
You linked six articles each of which has significantly less evidence than “a single line item from a spreadsheet”. They have conjecture and hearsay.
It’s a spreadsheet. Allegedly a Hamas spreadsheet. I’ve got zero reason to believe a word that comes out of the IDF. It hasn’t been independently verified.
However, I’m prepared to concede that what the spreadsheet suggests is that many years ago he may have served as a soldier, not a terrorist. And I think if you are going to condemn someone to death, (because that is what happened here), you need something more than something one can whip up on a computer in seconds.
There is zero evidence that he was a soldier OR a terrorist in 2023, 2024 or 2025. So he wasn’t a legitimate target. And there is more evidence that the IDF is deliberately targeting journalists than there is that al-Shariff was a terrorist. Over 200 journalists in circumstances where the journalist was the only target is pretty definitive evidence of a pattern.
You’ve literally provided zero evidence he was a terrorist.
There is no such thing as a Hamas “soldier”. Hamas is a terrorist organization.