They aren’t pacifists, they are just on the other side. They never seem to have a problem with conflicts started by Communists or other left-wing authoritarians, have remained remarkably silent on the ethnic cleansing of the Uygers, have said very little about Assad’s mass destruction in Syria, never have complaints about Iran’s fomenting of terrorism, etc. It’s just a bunch of people who hate the west and its values, and they will use the language of pacifism or the language of terror as they see fit - just like the Palestinians.
…considering that I hold that position, Sam, can you be explicit on what “side” you consider me on?
And I would very easily be able to show you that “people on my side” have NOT remained silent on the ethnic cleansing of the Uygers, have been vocal about Assad’s mass destruction in Syria, and if you haven’t been hearing them talk about it, its probably because you don’t follow them.
I don’t know what you mean here. But this isn’t a war with the Palestinians. It’s supposed to be a war with Hamas.
Who are you referring to?
No, the people yelling “gas the Jews” or “From the river to the sea” are not pacifists. Neither are the governments of any of the countries who are so quick to criticize Israel but have mysteriously forgotten to sign this UN resolution.
But that’s not what motivates Western people who are otherwise left-leaning. That’s best explained through a lack of nuance and a myopic view of every relationship through an exploiter/exploited lens.
Gaza is now split on two. What is the consensus for a end game? Who will govern Gaza?
Imho Hamas will still be around after the official fighting ends. It won’t take long for them to begin small terror attacks inside Gaza.
Governing this area will be a headache for whoever takes the job. I think it’s crucial that Gaza gets rebuilt. Repair the schools and hospitals. Establish a police force to protect Palestinians. Get the citizens back to work and earning incomes.
I hope something positive comes from this tragedy. Israel learned building a wall won’t make the Gaza problems go away.
Imho the key to peace in Gaza requires improving the lives of the Palestinians. That will cut off recruitment for Hamas. How can this be accomplished and still deal with Hamas terrorism?
I would ask the UN to supervise the election of a democratic government.
The problem is that so many Palestinians hate Israel and wish a country that exists from the ocean to the sea, obliterating Israel.
Are you going to apply the same UN oversight and observations to Israel?
Stranger
Run that by again.
Israel is a democratic country surrounded by Islamic dictatorships.
You are doing this for fun, aren’t you?
= )
Carnivoeousplant
Has the Israeli government ruled for 16 years without even a pretense of an election? Has the Israeli government fired missiles into another country from positions adjacent to (if not actually on or in) schools, hospitals, and civilian housing complexes? Does the Israeli government steal humanitarian aid sent for civilians to ensure the IDF is well-fed and well-supplied? Does the Israeli government tell civilians in a war zone - who have been warned to leave - to stay in place and then take action to ensure they do?
Why in the world would you equate a (frankly pipe-dream) Palestinian election with a (at this point) routine Israeli election?
Well said.
There are people on both sides who aren’t pacifists. There are also actual pacifists who have opinions about this war. Please try not to sweep with too broad a brush.
…the Gaza Strip is still considered occupied territory by the United Nations. That kinda matters here.
Israel has killed 4000 children so far in the last 3 weeks. Israel has, for decades, disposed, illegally seized property and land, demolished homes, forced evictions, keeps in place a system of laws and polices that “keep Palestinians restricted to enclaves, subject to several measures that control their lives, and segregated from Jewish Israelis.”
The routine series of Israeli elections have ensured that these systems and processes continue to this day. If you really want free elections in Gaza, then the occupation must properly end. Palestine must be free.
“Ending the occupation” caused this mess.
…I’m not on “lefty Twitter.” But I am on “lefty straight dope.”
And I think that it’s genocide. And I don’t have a “blind spot.” I think the rhetoric coming from the Israeli government makes it explicitly clear.
…the occupation hasn’t ended.
So is Gaza an occupied territory, or not? Because if your complaint is that Israel denies Gazans the freedom to travel within Israel, then you’re saying that Gaza is a part of Israel, not a foreign state under occupation.
I apologize for any misunderstanding. I was referring to the idea that Israeli elections need supervising. Not Palestinian ones.
You can condemn Israel for their actions, but you can’t claim it’s not a legitimately elected government committing those actions - unlike Hamas. Unless those 2007 elections were explicitly held as “dictator-for-life” - which frankly is bullshit anyway.
…the UN considers it occupied territory. I don’t have much more to say about the matter. I certainly aren’t going to get into a debate with you over it.
…the fact that its a legitimately elected government is the problem. If a legitimately elected government can do this, can cause death and destruction on this scale with effectively no pushback from the international community, then it isn’t the terrorist organizations that we really have to fear. It means authoritarianism is really starting to take hold. And perhaps Israel does need to have their elections supervised.
Then Israel has the right to set its own immigration policies as to who can and can’t travel to Israel from the foreign state known as Gaza.
…Israel does control who can and can’t travel from Gaza.