I don’t believe this. The IDF, unfortunately, showed itself to be not nearly the regional powerhouse of its reputation on Oct 7.
Hence my second example of an aggressive army as opposed to a defensive army. Groups conducting war will always be messy. But if murderous aggressors are not eliminated, they will keep on killing, whereas defenders will not kill (albeit with collateral damage) except to prevent themselves from being killed.
Not to mention that the victims of the original aggression were themselves “innocent bystanders.”
Hamas doesn’t. The IDF gives multiple fucks, but that doesn’t mean it’s capable of the level of bloodlessness that the feckless West wishes it could see.
“Peace” platitudes that ignore the differences between aggressive action and defensive action never need to be said.
That was a matter of them not being in that area in force at the time, and Hamas having the element of surprise. That’s a military error that can and has happened to any Army, even US forces. It does not change the fact that the IDF can handle Hamas in a direct confrontation, and even protect Israel should the conflict expand regionally with Hezbollah really entering the fray. The current actions clearly demonstrate this whether you believe it or not.
Welcome to the SDMB Dean. This place is a message board for the purpose of discussion. Its kinda why we are all here. 
They also failed to respond and rescue Israelis under attack for a long, long time (more than 12 hours IIRC) in some cases. Of course the IDF is much more powerful than Hamas and Hizbollah too, but that doesn’t mean that the IDF can destroy Hamas all by itself without support. At the very least, it’s clear they’re not quite as effective and ready as their reputation before Oct 7th would have lead me to believe, and their chances of success are lower without support than with support.
I’m sure 12 Hours seemed like forever for those people under attack, but IDF forces were deployed elsewhere (one of the biggest failures that BiBi’s administration will have to answer for). Which is one reason why the surprise attack was as successful as it was. No, the IDF for all it’s capability can’t be everywhere at once and does not have transporters and can’t instantly beam to where they are needed. But like i said, if you want to see how effective the IDF can be in their element, just turn on the news. They are quite a bit more effective than a lot of people are comfortable with, present company in this thread included.
Netanyahu may be a scumbag, but:
a) the article you linked to says nothing of the sort of intentions you accused him of, but rather, suggest that his strategy in helping Gaza via semi-legitimizing Hamas, was intended to keep the Palestinian leadership fragmented and therefore ineffective against Israel overall.
b) the Israeli media is dominated by left wingers and has been unrelentingly anti-Netanyahu, so even if they were saying what you claim they were (and maybe they do so in different articles) their speculations of his intentions (i.e., not something that can be reported with hard evidence) should be taken with a grain of salt
He certainly deserves some blame for the fact that Hamas became strong enough to carry out the 10/7 attacks. He does not deserve blame for the attitude of Gazans (and Palestinians in general) that motivates their violence, or support of violence, against Israel. That long pre-dated him and continued whether or not he was in power.
12 hours or more to cross a few hundred miles at most? That shows serious problems with command and control, logistics, or both. It’s not like they had to respond thousands of miles away. This was their own territory, which is pretty damn small.
Okay, strike my comment about the motives. He deliberately helped Hamas.
He deserves blame for helping Hamas, which has harmed many Gazans. He deserves blame for helping and advocating settlements, and ignoring mistreatment of Palestinians. So he certainly deserves blame for some of the negative attitudes of many Gazans and Palestinians.
And he deserves blame for getting in bed with the most fanatic, messianic nutjobs around.
Here’s another Israeli Left perspective, this time from the head of the Labor party while she was in Spain for a conference of European socialist parties. Like the other article Alessan quoted earlier, you’re welcome to look up her credentials. She is no warmonger. Many criticize her for being a bleeding heart peacenik (not me, I’m a big fan of her partner and like her politics overall, but that’s a criticism leveled against her by Likudniks).
So you’re saying that he should have been more aggressive against Hamas during the course of his leadership? Less cash going into Gaza, fewer work permits for Gazans (i.e., his actions outlined in your linked article), stuff like that? That would have made Gazans better disposed toward Israel?
He should have assisted the Palestinian groups that DON’T advocate and engage in mass murder, to ensure a real negotiating partner towards peace.
Do you have any recommendations? Even if you assume the PA to be a good faith peace partner (I personally don’t think of them as such), they were violently ousted from Gaza by Hamas…and this was before Netanyahu returned to power in 2009. So that’s not an option there.
Yes - they should announce now that they are willing and ready to negotiate with any Palestinian group that is interested in a peaceful two state solution as soon as Hamas is defeated. And that they’re ready to pull back from the illegal and immoral settlements of the last couple of decades.
Netanyahu won’t do this, which is one of many reasons he should resign or be forced out.
There are no such groups.
There are only two factions among the Palestinians. One faction is made up of Islamic fanatics who want to die as martyrs, and the other one,( which naive westerners call “moderate”) is made of of less-religious fanatics who want to die as martyrs.
The “moderate” faction is run by Mahmoud Abbas , who wrote his PhD thesis denying the Holocaust, and is a direct disciple of Yassir Arafat, who founded the PLO for the sole purpose of destroying Israel completely (and this was before the 6 Day War, and thus before there were any Israeli settlers in the west bank)
In the “moderate” areas of the west bank under control of Abbas, all the elementary schools are named in honor of “martyrs” who blew up school busses full of Israeli children or similiar terrorist acts.
For comparison…in America now there is a trend to remove from schools the names of evil people (slaveholders, Robert E, Lee),
Here is a personal request: for those of you asking us Israelis to sit down and talk to the nice, moderate Palestinians…would you proudly send your kids to a school named for the Ku Klux Klan?
OK, so we’re talking about what he SHOULD do once Hamas is forcefully removed from Gaza, not about what he could/should have done but failed to do that led to the current situation in Gaza. Got it.
And he’ll be the problem with future peace negotiations. Once some more acceptable Israeli is Prime Minister, various peaceful Palestinian groups will emerge from Hamas’s suppression into the light and line up to make peace…as long as it’s not with Netanyahu. Again, got it.
Way to take down that straw man!
I don’t accept this cite free right wing propaganda. Palestinians are people, just like any other group, and those millions of men, women and children don’t all, to the last individual, lust for death and destruction. Many genuinely want peace.
Way to have put it up!
Of course they are people, and a whole lot of them actually live in peace right now. But their government does not.
Remember, in 1933, there was another place where most people wanted to live in peace and not face death and destruction. Their government had other ideas, and they went along with it, enthusiastically.
(Yes, I know Godwin’s rule of internet etiquette says that when you resort to mentioning Hitler, you’ve lost the argument. But in this case, it is an appropriate comparison.)
Oct 7 is a date that will live in infamy.
(This is not like Sept 11, which turned out to be a less-important historical event than it seemed at the time.)