Fascinating editorial. Jonathan Schanzer’s editorial is also worth reading.
I’m trying to keep a open mind. I’m waiting for them to explore and film more inside the tunnels.
Link Why is legacy media covering for Hamas on al-Shifa Hospital?
…that hamas dot com website is not-safe-for-work, and is almost certainly disinfo, not a “real” Hamas website.
The answer is that legacy media isn’t covering for Hamas on al-Shifa. There were very specific claims made about the command and control bunker that was under al-Shifa. They had videos and everything.
But that video didn’t reflect reality. The evidence that was presented prior to the taking of al-Shifa that the hospital was being used as “command and control for Hamas” was as poor as the evidence presented in the New York Post editorial. Legacy media are doing their job in this case.
And on hospitals: the latest statement from Doctors without Borders after yesterdays attacks on Al Awda Hospital that killed two of their doctors:
And from CNN a couple of hours ago:
Israeli strikes hit northern Gaza while paralyzed hospitals continue receiving patients.
Did Hamas plan and set a PR trap for Israel re: the al-Shifa hospital? While the fighting was happening outside the hospital, I was wondering “If Hamas claims there are no headquarters or anything militarily important at the hospital, why fiercely fight with Israel outside of it, resulting in civilian casualties?”
Now that we’ve seen not much evidence from Israel about extensive Hamas compounds at the hospital, is it possible that Hamas (a) deliberately made Israel intelligence believe there was something of huge importance there (b) fought them for many days outside the hospital to generate civilian victims and international condemnation of Israel and (c) knew that there won’t be much for Israel to find at the hospital, thus making all the reasons for attacking a hospital come across as lies?
…no.
Israel has been making this same claim for years. It became, as some have said in this thread, “common knowledge”. As others have said in this thread, its “insurgency 101.”
It didn’t matter that everybody who had worked in the hospital (including international aid agencies and NGO’s) said they had seen no evidence of command and control bunkers, that Israel have had decades to verify this information but never bothered to do so.
This wasn’t a “trap.” Its gas-lighting. And it did the job. It gave the IDF enough cover to take al-Shifa out of action, and they used variations of the very same story to take out all the hospitals in the north.
None of this matches anything that actually happened. The deliberate targeting of the hospitals wasn’t a Hamas strategic decision. It’s an IDF one. The international condemnation of Israel for what it did here, and in its actions after it took the hospital and forced those who were sheltering there to leave, is entirely deserved.
But there was plenty of chances before the siege.
What support did Hamas give?
ABC News is reporting 50 hostages could be released for a 4 to 5 day pause.
That’s a lot less than prior reports. But it’s better than nothing.
Why on earth would the IDF care about taking al-Shifa “out of action” if it isn’t a Hamas base?
[…trimmed…]
…it was a hospital. As it was, they were having to MacGyver most things due to a lack of resources. And what they ended up doing with the premature babies was much more practical than trying to use car batteries, and it ended up saving most of the babies lives.
We know that despite the siege that started in the early days of the war, the hospital continued to be supplied with food, water, and the thousands of litres of fuel that it needed to keep the hospital running. Whether those supplies can be attributed to NGO’s, Humanitarian agencies, Ministry of Health staff, the community, or Hamas, I don’t think any of us could provide a breakdown. But we know that it all stopped when the IDF began its siege. And we know that several days after the IDF took the hospital, they gave everybody taking shelter at the hospital one-hours-notice to leave.
Are you still wondering where I got this impression?
Yes. @Banquet_Bear, are you claiming that there was no Hamas at the hospital? If not @Banquet_Bear, @Babale, who do you think is making that claim?
…I might be missing larger context because there are some posts that I’m able to see, but in response to your specific question: I’m not claiming there was no Hamas at the hospital.
This paragraph seems to imply that you’ve concluded there’s no truth to the IDF’s assertions about Hamas’s use of the hospital and directly underneath it, and that the IDF has some interest in destroying Gazan hospitals (why?) entirely separated from their war against Hamas.
I find that hard to reconcile with earlier statements made, like this one:
Not only is this a very good question, it gets at an incredibly serious and troubling allegation that has been made repeatedly in this thread, by more than one poster, sometimes explicitly and other times implicitly, but never with any evidence.
If someone is going to claim that the IDF is murdering civilians on purpose - not because the IDF is too trigger happy and callous but because they are purposefully killing civilians in cold blood - they shouldn’t do so coyly. They should just come out and openly say whatever it is they want to say, or if they’re not prepared to do so, don’t make allegations they cannot back up.
…that would be what the evidence suggests.
Every hospital in the north is out of service. WHO have been asked to help evacuate Al Shifa, Indonesian Hospital and Al Ahli Hospital. It isn’t a matter of “destroying them.” Just shutting them down. As to why they’ve decided to do this: they haven’t found evidence of Hamas command and control at any of the hospitals. So you tell me.
In the interest of factual accuracy, let me point out that this is only true if you consider automatic weapons, explosives, vehicles used in the Oct 7 massacres, and tunnel networks to be normal hospital features.
Why should @iiandyiiii tell you what you are alleging? Why don’t you tell us what it is that you allege?
If I wanted to kill civilians at a hospital, I’d blow the thing up, and claim that it was hamas munitions exploding.
Is it not possible that hamas took their stuff and left through tunnels, like the one with a metal door that had an opening to shoot through?
I don’t think so, I’ve heard that only gorillas know how to fight in this fashion
Guerillas? I do not understand.
There is a huge difference between “Hamas command and control” and Hamas foot-soldiers. I think you’re conflating the two, in posts like this and elsewhere. Do you see a significant and meaningful difference between scenarios where:
- A hospital has a number of Hamas fighters, but no Hamas leaders; and
- A hospital has Hamas leadership and equipment that’s used to coordinate operations?
If you see that significant difference, which one of those do you think is being denied, and which one do you think IDF is providing evidence of?
I don’t want to be coy. I see a big difference between those two. I think the second is being denied, and IDF has provided evidence of the first.