# Discussion thread for the "Polls only" thread (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 16, 2024, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636 "2024-02-16T02:56:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 143
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2842 "2024-08-07T03:45:57Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > [@markn\_1](#): > > > > it’s fine to say “it’s either raining or it’s not raining”. Everyone knows what that means. > > Not me, apparently. Or at any rate, what you think it means and what I think it means aren’t the same thing. Because what it means to me is that the person saying that isn’t looking at the world; they’re looking at the inside of their own head, and the inside of their head is really limited. I’m still not quite sure what your objection is. But, in a sense, logic isn’t about looking at the world. You can look at the world to get the data to apply the logic to, but when you’re actually doing the logic, you’re not looking at the world at all; you are just inside your head. Suppose I ask you to look at the world and tell me whether it is, in fact, raining. That is, is “It is raining” a true statement? Suppose you tell me that it is. I can then, without looking at the world, just by applying logic to what you told me, infer that “It is not raining” is a false statement. Or that “It is raining or you have a pencil up your nose” is a true statement. Or maybe you tell me that “It is raining” is false. I can then use logic to conclude that “It is not raining” is a true statement, or that “It is raining and you’re wearing socks” is a false statement. Or maybe you tell me you can’t declare “It is raining” to be unambiguously true or false. And that’s fine. If you can assign a specific intermediate value to it, somewhere in between TRUE and FALSE, maybe we could use [fuzzy logic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic). Or we could just say that, since it doesn’t have a specific truth value, it’s not the kind of statement we can use logic on. So I’m wondering if your objection is really that not every statement has a truth value of either TRUE or FALSE if you check it against the real world and expect to hold that truth value universally and unambiguously. If that’s what you’re saying, well, you’re right, but I think every logician readily acknowledges that. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2843 "2024-08-07T13:13:01Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > But, in a sense, logic isn’t about looking at the world. But it is used by many people to apply to the world; and the example chosen was an applying-to-the-world sort of example. My objection is that it’s often so mis-applied. And I disagree that every logician readily acknowledges that; in particular, that the person who put that example in a college text would acknowledge it. I never challenged him; but in a later class, with a different professor, I did challenge it. The professor said ‘you’re either in the room or out of the room’ and I got up, went to the door, and stood there with my lower body outside the door and my head and shoulders leaning in and asked him ‘Am I in the room or out of the room?’ He didn’t acknowledge that “not every statement has a truth value of either TRUE or FALSE if you check it against the real world”. He told me that I was being trivial. The specific example was pretty trivial. When it turns, in the real world, into ‘you’re either with us or against us’, it’s very often not trivial at all. There are murders committed, and all sorts of oppression, because of the idea that ‘if I am right about this, then you must be Wrong. And acknowledging that you might be right would amount to admitting that I must be Wrong and that would be horrible so you need to be wiped out!’ ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2844 "2024-08-07T14:28:39Z")
Liminality is a pretty important concept in anthropology, and comes from exactly the example you give (limen = threshold): when you’re on the threshold, you’re in an in-between, transitional place. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2845 "2024-08-07T15:09:07Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > I took my symbolic logic course in the philosophy department, not as a math course. I checked it anyway. > > Same. Still counts. Oh, hmm, that wasn’t the name of the class, but actually, it fits. I should go back and add that. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2846 "2024-08-07T15:11:27Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > > [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > > > Statistics sounded extremely interesting to me before I had taken it. > > > > Afterwards (and during), not so much. > > I had pretty much the opposite experience. Even though I was a math major and went on to get a Master’s in math, I never took a class in Statistics and/or Probability, and part of the reason was my perception of Statistics as boring number-crunching and record-keeping. Ditto. Then i became an actuary and had to learn a lot of that stuff anyway. But i never took the classes. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2847 "2024-08-07T15:49:27Z")
I learned most of my math in science classes. I learned most of my science in math classes. There has got to be a better way to teach this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2848 "2024-08-07T15:57:09Z")
Teach it all in the philosophy department, where it all got started? [runs away] ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2849 "2024-08-07T17:10:45Z")
I was reading @Velocity’s poll on the parent with the child about to make a life-ending, but world changing-moment, and my first response was to say “of course, it will change the world for the better/greatest good/etc”. I then realized I’m not a parent, and that I don’t think I can honestly evaluate the emotional bond that entails. Did not vote. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2850 "2024-08-07T17:30:43Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > I then realized I’m not a parent, and that I don’t think I can honestly evaluate the emotional bond that entails. I thought “I should allow this, but I am a parent and no way am I okay with that.” In the abstract, sure. My kid? Sorry, no. I’d rather it be me. But not my kid. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2851 "2024-08-07T17:30:45Z")
I’d hope I’d have the guts to do it myself, if that were an option. (I don’t know if I would; but I hope so.) So I think I’d have to hope I’d have the guts to accept my child doing it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2852 "2024-08-07T21:45:55Z")
Remember, as a EX-president trump got much less security than Biden does. Goofy is a “Dawg”. i.e. humanoid canine. Like Mickey is a humanized mouse, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2853 "2024-08-07T22:46:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Goofy is a “Dawg” This is what I wanted to vote for, but none of the options quite fit. Still, I suppose Goofy is at least as much of a dog as Mickey is a mouse. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2854 "2024-08-07T23:01:00Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I’d hope I’d have the guts to do it myself, if that were an option. (I don’t know if I would; but I hope so.) So I think I’d have to hope I’d have the guts to accept my child doing it. This. Didn’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2855 "2024-08-08T17:09:31Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I could not care less which state a candidate for president/VP is from. I’d rather a candidate who represents my views, from any state, than a Texan candidate whom I disagree with. Same here. I definitely will not be voting for the New Yorker in this election. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2856 "2024-08-08T17:53:20Z")
I have a plug-in calculator at work that I haven’t used in years, preferring my phone’s. None of the other devices. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2857 "2024-08-08T18:15:31Z")
I have an old solar calculator somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2858 "2024-08-08T18:28:53Z")
I use Excel as a calculator when I’m at my computer. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2859 "2024-08-08T19:11:59Z")
I’m not sure if it still works, but I’ve got a vintage HP desktop calculator from circa 1971, similar to [this one](https://www.hpmuseum.org/hp9820.htm). It’s almost like a mini-computer, as it can run some very simple programs. And like all old HP calculators, it uses [Reverse Polish Notation](https://www.hpmuseum.org/rpn.htm#what). I’ve also got an old probably 1980s era Radio Shack brand solar powered calculator laying around. I used to keep it in my car for calculating my fuel economy, but I have my phone for that now. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2860 "2024-08-08T19:21:20Z")
My household has 2-3 electronic calculators of various levels of “smart” from a classic “solar” mini that’s good for algebra, to a $200 behemoth advanced graphic model my wife used extensively working on her PhD in Physics. She also has several sheets and several books with printed tables and values, including log tables. Otherwise, we have an awesome (unused, but workable) slide rule my wife begged off her father, complete with leather holster suited to carrying a range rifle (similar to the following). [![](https://preview.redd.it/a-slide-rule-with-a-scabbard-that-i-bought-from-an-antique-v0-4v8bpbpoloba1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9b3557b4fedb77547047b6478fbd6371565174b2) ](https://preview.redd.it/a-slide-rule-with-a-scabbard-that-i-bought-from-an-antique-v0-4v8bpbpoloba1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9b3557b4fedb77547047b6478fbd6371565174b2) ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/2861 "2024-08-08T19:34:06Z")
I’ve got an old HP-35 which I bought for $300 in 1973 and no longer works, an HP-16C, a Casio fx-270w which I didn’t even remember I had but just found while looking for my 16C, two slide rules, a Piccolo-S mechanical stylus calculator which absolutely entranced me as a child, and a soroban which I also spent a lot of time learning to use as a child. Oh, and the 23rd edition of CRC Standard Mathematical Tables which includes logarithm tables. A friend of mine recently bought a Curta which is totally awesome. I’d love to have one but I can’t justify the cost; I’d probably spend a week playing with it and then put in on a shelf and never touch it again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636.md?page=142) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636.md?page=144)