# Discussion thread for the "Polls only" thread (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 16, 2024, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636 "2024-02-16T02:56:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 173
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3442 "2024-09-17T16:32:36Z")
It does make sound. Just like how, if a light is turned on in the forest but nobody is around to see it, it still emitted light. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3443 "2024-09-17T16:41:15Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > My reaction’s always “there’s always someone around to hear it. Maybe there isn’t anybody human; but any forest has so many other creatures that humans haven’t managed to name them all yet, and a shitload of them can perceive sound waves.” This is fighting the hypothetical. The question isn’t about any real tree falling in any real forest, it’s about a hypothetical question: if a tree falls and NO ONE hears it … Surely you can’t believe it’s impossible for such a situation to happen, even if it would need to be artificially set up. If you have a hard time envisioning such an unusal forest, think of the question as “If a rock falls on Mars and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?” My take is the answer is obviously dependent on what definition of “sound” you’re using. If a “sound” is pressure waves in the air then it makes a sound. If a “sound” is a living organism perceiving pressure waves in the air, then it doesn’t make a sound. Neither definition is more obviously correct than the other, so you need to specify which one you’re using, and then the answer is clear. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3444 "2024-09-17T17:37:00Z")
-smashes face repeatedly against keyboard- Changing the subject! So, most of us agree that _Idiocracy_ is the better of the two dystopian hellholes our society resembles. I think that’s because, despite the rampant idiocy of the world, all in all, the characters we meet seem to be largely _good_, or at least, innocent despite that. I found it somewhat amusing, because it plays into the tropes that intellect/knowledge is what brings out, or enables evil. They’re making things worse because they don’t _know_ any better, but they’re still trying. And if they find a solution, they have no hesitancy in implementing it. I find it… charming? Simultaneously I find it unlikely, and always wonder what would happen if the events of the closing had played out in a sequel or story. Because what happens in an Idiocracy world if the one/few smart people are entirely selfish. It’s freaking terrifying! ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3445 "2024-09-17T17:48:39Z")
I feel much the same - it’s easier to fix stupid than it is to fix evil. Someone who wants what’s good, but is ill-informed or uneducated, merely lacks the information. Someone who wants what’s bad, can’t be reasoned with. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3446 "2024-09-17T17:55:02Z")
See, I had the opposite reaction. If people aren’t stupid, it’s easier to fix evil. If they ARE stupid, it’s a lot easier to be manipulated by evil. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3447 "2024-09-17T18:44:50Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > Surely you can’t believe it’s impossible for such a situation to happen By definition, a forest has species in it that can perceive sound. > [@markn\_1](#): > > If you have a hard time envisioning such an unusal forest, think of the question as “If a rock falls on Mars and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?” So how come nobody (other than you just now) ever puts it that way? And the answer to the Mars question is, as you say, “it depends on how you define sound.” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3448 "2024-09-17T19:14:18Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > So how come nobody (other than you just now) ever puts it that way? Because, as @ParallelLines points our, people are so human-centric as to think of a forest as devoid of sentience if there aren’t any people in it. And it’s easier to envision a forest (which must of us have experienced) than Mars (which most of us haven’t.) ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3449 "2024-09-17T19:20:05Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Because, as @ParallelLines points our, people are so human-centric as to think of a forest as devoid of sentience if there aren’t any people in it. Exactly. Which is also exactly what ticks me off about that phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3450 "2024-09-17T19:23:27Z")
None of the dictionaries I’ve consulted say that a forest by definition has animal species in it. OED: An extensive tract of land covered with trees and undergrowth, sometimes intermingled with pasture. Merriam-Webster: a dense growth of trees and underbrush covering a large tract Cambridge Dictionary: a large area land covered trees and plants, usually larger than a wood, or the trees and plants themselves Collins: a large area where trees grow close together. Britannica: a thick growth of trees and bushes that covers a large area It is a fact of nature that forests normally contain animals, but it’s not part of the definition of “forest”. A dense group of trees devoid of animals would still be a forest. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3451 "2024-09-17T19:41:59Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > -smashes face repeatedly against keyboard- > > Changing the subject! > > So, most of us agree that _Idiocracy_ is the better of the two dystopian hellholes our society resembles. > > I think that’s because, despite the rampant idiocy of the world, all in all, the characters we meet seem to be largely _good_, or at least, innocent despite that. I found it somewhat amusing, because it plays into the tropes that intellect/knowledge is what brings out, or enables evil. > > They’re making things worse because they don’t _know_ any better, but they’re still trying. And if they find a solution, they have no hesitancy in implementing it. > > I find it… charming? Simultaneously I find it unlikely, and always wonder what would happen if the events of the closing had played out in a sequel or story. > > Because what happens in an Idiocracy world if the one/few smart people are entirely selfish. It’s freaking terrifying! In _Idiocracy_ I would have a chance of being on the cabinet. Maybe even president! ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3452 "2024-09-17T19:49:28Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > It is a fact of nature that forests normally contain animals, Not just normally, but always. And not only aboveground macroscopic animals – though those will be there – but also underground life and microbiota. Those "large land area"s and "large tract"s in your choice of definitions are not made up only of trees and rocks. If there are no other species there, the trees won’t be there either. And here’s a definition or three: > **[When is a forest a forest? Forest concepts and definitions in the era of...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4980317/)** > > We present a historical overview of forest concepts and definitions, linking these changes with distinct perspectives and management objectives. Policies dealing with a broad range of forest issues are often based on definitions created for the... > From the “land cover” perspective, forests are viewed as ecosystems or vegetation types supporting unique assemblages of plants and animals. [https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&sca\_esv=88c0efca59d0fb4e&sca\_upv=1&q=Forest&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgVuLQz9U3MKoqsgAAmYvovwwAAAA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiut5HN3cqIAxWSEGIAHcH1BUAQ6RN6BAgAEAM](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&sca_esv=88c0efca59d0fb4e&sca_upv=1&q=Forest&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgVuLQz9U3MKoqsgAAmYvovwwAAAA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiut5HN3cqIAxWSEGIAHcH1BUAQ6RN6BAgAEAM) > A forest is an ecosystem characterized by a dense community of trees. > **[Forest | Definition, Ecology, Types, Trees, Examples, & Facts](https://www.britannica.com/science/forest)** > > Forest, complex ecological system in which trees are the dominant life-form. Tree-dominated ecosystems can occur wherever the temperatures rise above 10 degrees Celsius (50 degrees Fahrenheit) in the warmest months and the annual precipitation is... > **forest** , complex [ecological system](https://www.britannica.com/science/systems-ecology) and [natural resource](https://www.britannica.com/science/natural-resource) in which [trees](https://www.britannica.com/plant/tree) are the dominant life-form. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3453 "2024-09-17T20:35:45Z")
If the forest is devoid of life that is capable of sensing vibrations of any kind, and a tree falls, does that change anyone’s answer? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3454 "2024-09-17T21:11:05Z")
That’s not a forest. That’s the Mars example; and gets the Mars answer. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3455 "2024-09-17T21:50:51Z")
Yes, it changes my answer from, "huh‽” to “yes”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3456 "2024-09-17T23:54:22Z")
> [@Ellecram](#): > > I keep waiting for the day when some of them will group together and offer a subscription to several news organizations, i.e., Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, etc. > > I might sign up for something like that. But I don’t think it will ever happen. If it did happen, it would probably be because they were all owned by the same corporation. In which case, they would probably all be saying the same thing anyway. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3457 "2024-09-18T00:26:17Z")
The fact that the word “forest” is in the question is completely incidental and irrelevant to the point. How about “If a tree falls somewhere and there’s no one there to hear it, did it make a sound?” ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3458 "2024-09-18T00:28:17Z")
Is “Tyranny of the assholes” a movie or something? Google isn’t helping. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3459 "2024-09-18T04:05:36Z")
I think that’s part of the Jurassic Park series? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3460 "2024-09-18T15:09:04Z")
I like walking in the forest in part because of the quiet. Now I feel robbed of that. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/3461 "2024-09-18T15:57:57Z")
Safety while walking at night in my neighborhood. I answered 11pm, but with the understanding it has nothing to do with safety from criminal threats. But it’s got narrowish roads, on street parking, lots of curves, and very poor lighting. During the day, minimal problems. Out at night, earlier on, most people aren’t _as_ tired, or coming home from bars, and generally paying attention. I figured though much after that, well, all bets are off. Every time my mailbox has been hit by a car (3 times in 22 years) it’s been between 11pm and 6am (although for two of those times, it was also icy, but that’s another issue generally worse at night!). If I was voting based only on worries about intentional criminal behavior, I’d probably put down safe at all hours, since it’s a set of pretty boring early 80s houses in a nook a good distance from any major roads or business. Granted, if I extended the definition of neighborhood, once we start getting near UCCS there are a ton of shared student houses, where I’d expect a lot more drunk/stoned (It’s Colorado after all) drivers to be wary of, but not a lot more criminal targets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636.md?page=172) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636.md?page=174)